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Thread: Upcoming Reforged 1.2: Feedback required to adjust difficulty lvls

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    the master townltu's Avatar
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    Default Upcoming Reforged 1.2: Feedback required to adjust difficulty lvls

    You may have already read that i am working on an update for the Reforged 1.1 mod

    I decided to integrate an optional choice for additional levels of difficulty (etc;)
    which can be selected or completely declined at start during communication with NPC.

    To adjust the levels i need feedback, mainly which encounters you think are too difficult or easy.

    The feedback should obviously contain info about location+monsters,
    but also some details about party strength, like lvl and skill development
    and perhaps even a simple subjective classification of party items avg quality (bad,avg,good)

    Its also interesting to know at which point fights were lost and when the same party was succesful.


    I appreciate ideas/suggestions how to make fights tougher by adding or relocating monsters,
    respectively how much tougher they should be in your opinion.

    Unfortunaltely the only option for an adjustment to easier encounters
    are additional friendlies, preferably low numbers in order not to delay combats.
    Else half the mod has to be turned upside down and tons of triggers added,
    impacting game speed and perhaps stability, where the latter imo is main argument against.
    Would that be acceptable for all who prefer easier encounters?


    Thx in advance for all your useful and precise feedback!

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    Creator of Reforged Mod 1.1 Qusari's Avatar
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    Dont know about the Group Leaders of those 3 different Skeleton Groups and also those 3 Skeleton Masters in the Final Group. From the update 1.0 to 1.1. Never got any feedback on those.

    I would assume that those Leaders could be made (quite) harder a bit ? There are so many possibilities to tackle undead monsters (spells, powders, specialised weapons) that harder Leaders should still be managable by lower partys ?

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    I appreciate that you need well-thought and detailed answers on this. I'll have time this weekend to make a long reply. (I didn't want you to think that the deafening silence so far means that no one is thinking about it.)

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    Wafer-thin mint sir? Creosote's Avatar
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    Not sure if this is the sort of feedback you are requesting, but I'll give it and if its no use then nothing lost. For my games and game playing experiences in Wiz8, the Mods, and of course Reforged, monster combat difficulty is most affected by spell casters in the monster group, and the size of the monster group. One or two tough spell casters throwing high level debilitating and kill spells at the group is far more powerful than a couple of extremely high level melee monsters. I dont know if this is possible but difficulty could be adjusted by the type of monster group, the higher the difficulty, the more powerful the monster spell-casters, ranging say from no spell casters through one medium level spell casters, right up to two high level spell casters. When I played Reforged I found the high level boss type monsters generally easy, even though they had high levels, were often alone, and didnt have spells or didnt throw them much. For myself I found the monster encounters in Dodd's mod far more of a challenge as the power of the monster groups increased as the parties level increased. If you could incorporate something like that into the difficulty, that would be good.

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    I'm a player who prefers easier games, and I hate power-training. I've been playing the mod at "novice" level of difficulty, which is a good fit to my playing style most of the time. I always play with a full party of 8, with small variations on the following: Fighter, Rogue, Valkyrie, Ranger, Monk, Gadgeteer, Priest, Mage. Comments on various areas and monsters:
    Ancient Dungeon--well balanced. Only complaint is the turtles, which on a slow computer take several minutes to advance. If I ruled the world, I'd substitute something else like tanika fish or weak crocodiles. I have the same problem later in the game with dwarves and ninja turtles, but the dwarves can't be substituted without wrecking the whole concept of Dwarven Country, and the ninja turtles are very enjoyable monsters, so I'm willing to put up with their slow movement.
    Arnika--well balanced, though the waves of androids get a bit monotonous. I'd throw more Higardi highwaymen and roustabouts into the mix for variety.
    Skeleton mobs on the roads--referring to Qusari's comments on the bosses, I think they're tough enough already. The anti-undead spells and powders have a weak effect, and the "turn-undead" power of priests and bishops is very weak. The anti-undead weapons are strong, but it takes awhile to wade through the underlings and reach the bosses.
    Lower Marten's Bluff--as someone commented on the old boards, the undead behind the painting should be a lot stronger, since they're guarding the awesome Meteor Hammer. My party is usually level 11-12 at that spot; ghosts should be at least level 13, with possibly a Death Lord or even an Enlightened Spirit added in.
    (more in a 2nd message; I don't want to risk losing all this writing)

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    The Rift--my parties are usually level 15-18 with good equipment by the time I get there. The Horragoth and friends are plenty tough, but the Rapax are weak. Tweaking them all would be a huge amount of work, so maybe insert or substitute a few other nasties, like demons?
    Southeast Wilderness--the Rattkin are difficult to gauge, because there is so much variation in what level the party would be when you fight them, anywhere from 12-20. I'd leave the Rattkin strength where it is and let the player decide when to risk attacking them. The Temple--Nebdar and company are tough enough as is. I try them between levels 20-25.
    Mountain Wilderness--party level usually 15-18. The Big Cat with Fur is beautiful, but far too weak for that area. Dojo-perfect as is, except the issue with white ninjas having too many attacks, which was discussed before.
    Secret cave behind Anselm--party level 18-22. Spiders are too weak, webs and poison should be stronger. Queen spider just runs away; she should take a more active role in the fight. Earth elementals are okay as is.
    Oasis--inner and outer parts are both balanced, no tweaking necessary.
    New area at Umpani Base Camp (behind the felled trees)--monster level is high compared to the rewards in that area. Party level maybe 12-15, but by then party equipment is usually better than the stuff found.
    New area in Bayjin Shallows--party level 18-22, Megaladon and ninja turtles are a good tough fight, as they should be. No changes needed.
    Pirate Island--sheesh! Party level 20-25, good equipment. Baron Englund's party is a fun fight, no changes. The Barbarians however...I tend to get massacred. Their extended range physical attacks are so strong that usually only multiple casts of Body of Stone save me (if I have time to cast them). This is an area where a few friendlies would help, but I can't really see a way to insert anything that would be consistent with the game concept (except for the friendly dragon, of course, but he's only there for one fight).
    Continued...

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    The Necromani plane containing the Schwarzenhogger or however you spell it--difficult clear through, and it's supposed to be. Since this is an optional area designed for players who like hard fights, I wouldn't change anything.
    The Primary Rocks--the hardest part of the mod, for me, except for the Dark Savant himself. Party level 25-28. I could handle the individual boss monsters, but the mobs of Valkyries did me in, very similar to Barbarians with extended physical attacks. There's supposed to be a civil war going on between the good and bad Valkyries, so maybe the rocks with several Valkyries or unicorns on them could have one or two fight on the party's side.
    Ascension Peak--by the time you get there, everything's a piece of cake except for the bosses. Only mass tweaking of all the regular monsters would change that, which isn't a practical option. The bosses are hard but achievable, no changes necessary.
    The alternate spaceport and Savant City--party level 28-30, monster levels well-matched.
    The Dark Savant and his minions--I confess it, I could not beat him. The Deranged Gaze turned all my characters insane and they killed each other on every attempt. Qusari put several hints in the game that Iron Will would be a critical skill to have, so my next party is going to put a high priority on that.

    On a different subject regarding modern weapons--it would be very helpful if somewhere in game there was an explanation of how different ammos should be used. The Daegan rifle with Daegan cartridges is straightforward: put the rifle in the left-hand ranged weapon slot and the cartridges in the right-hand ammo slot. Some other weapons are a puzzle, though--how do you recharge the Qusari rifle, and the A1C Danny Cannon? Where do the Powerpaks go? A note explaining this in the weapon's or ammo's description makes sense to me, as a Gadgeteer or other modern weapon user should be able to figure it out.

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    the master townltu's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback!

    I think the different kinds are all helpful,
    they probably sum up to a better overview than several equally structured can do.

    But i would not mind if you add more, or someone else dares to post his feedback


    I should say that i dont plan to make changes on the vanilla monsters,
    though i know that the additional XP from added monsters/quests/riddles
    have the effect of making them weaker,
    but thats too much effort for balancing as most appear also in encounter tables or different scenarios.

    My variations mainly base on monster spawns,
    depending on players choice at start friendly or hostile monsters appear in some encounters.

    Some Single bosses will also get support by default as i agree to Creosote regarding numbers,
    a single boss is normally a poor boss in wiz8.



    "the Schwarzenhogger"
    , thats was a real nice one for somebody with my native language,
    perhaps similar to "Conan the Bavarian"?
    scnr, i just feel literally forced to correct the misspelling,
    as the creatures correct name "Schazzwozzer" is a credit which refers to the models creators nickname.

    Regarding the effects of the Schazzwozzer glance, you could simply run way,
    that way nobody in party can do any other actions.
    The mod has several items with extreme high mental resistance bonus,
    (i bet @1.24 a fully maxed RFS nearly reaches 2nd overflow
    you could distribute the items which improve mental resistance.
    Use sumoned monsters for gambit/as decoy/bait (not sure about vocabulary
    should work good in that open range.


    The modern weapons work different,
    technically spoken some are phasers, other muskets with no need to reload.

    The musket types should be known, the AIC or Qusar rifles should work with powerpaks,
    put them in 2ndary hand or personal inventory,
    it may be required to load such a weapon with zero loads,
    simply grab the item and click on the weapon.
    From there on the PC appears to reload during combats automatically,
    as long as he has ammo,
    so when reequipping from party inventory dont forget to reload.
    May differ for ammo with changed attributes

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    Creator of Reforged Mod 1.1 Qusari's Avatar
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    The Qusar Rifle is/was not intended to be reloadable at all, because it makes 200 fixed damaged; the idea behind the Qusar Rifle was to have an ace at hand if stuff gets really out of hand. It would be some kind of last resort weapon.

    Same goes now for the Danny AC (although it could be that I changed this since Lunastralis)

    Making good reloadable weapons (beside musket/Frontier phaser) was not possible for me. I think the frontier is hardcoded. All other things I tried did just not work correctly. Did you find a way to do it now towntlu ?

    Making the ghosts harder in Lower Martens Bluff (or pur in some other nasty surprise) is a good idea, I somehow miscalculated that people could get so early on to the Meteor Hammer and will be able to use it, since it has several restrictions on it.

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    Creator of Reforged Mod 1.1 Qusari's Avatar
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    I dont know what the issues with the tiny Turtles is ( I think somebody else also reported issues before), on my system they are running well. The Turtle is a model by sirtech which was only used for decorative purposes originally ...... maybe they had an issue with it from beginning ? (although it is somewhat unllikely)

    The turtles in the dungeon are very much scaled down, and I had to adjust those

    # Snapper

    crawls

    scalerangestart .25
    scalerangeend .26
    movementrate .5

    walkradius 0.7
    fightradius .9
    cameraheight .9
    targetheight .9

    shadow 2 1

    If they are making so trouble it may be the best to exchange them, although the water would be to shallow for any kind of fish (animation issues; scale)

    Maybe some other kind (easier) of Fern Louse ? monster id 755

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    the master townltu's Avatar
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    "Snappers" / "Turles"

    Their movementrate is probably not well adjusted in mls,
    additionally the model itself may have its own issues,
    indicated by the extreme impact of different Monster movementrates in game and in wiz8fast.
    Perhaps reimport with different scaling would help?
    Or simply declaring them back to swimmers, respectively to quadrupeds?

    Excerpt from orginal Snappers .mlsfile:

    # Snapper
    swims
    hoverrangestart .5
    hoverrangeend 1.25
    bobrangestart .1
    bobrangeend .5
    scalerangestart .8
    scalerangeend 1.1
    movementrate 3.75
    walkradius 2
    fightradius 1.5
    cameraheight 1.5
    targetheight 1.75
    shadow 2 1


    Indicated by mls files for the same monster models with different size
    (ants, crabs, elementals, etc)
    and also based on own experiments,
    i think that scaling to another size does not require to adjust any other value in mls,
    as long as the original is adjusted to "correct" appearance.
    I would explain movementrate "how fast the engine moves the model during a walk cycle"
    Do you remember the ultrafast moving monsters in Deathstalkers, Dodds also has some?
    Their imo exaggerated movementrate creates exactly the opposite effect,
    think it was intended, imo okay for a single monster but no appropriate way for balancing.
    Btw if it embarasses you also,
    enter bullet time mode by permantly intiating combat in order to move:D

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    the master townltu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qusari View Post
    ... I think the frontier is hardcoded... ...Did you find a way to do it now towntlu ?
    Think the hardcoding thingie bases primarily on the items appearance,
    ID 110 aka Phaser requires ID 132 as ammo, if usage count isnt set to infinite.
    Also whether a weapon has its own missile assigned appears to have impact.

    Same goes for Rocket launcher and rockets.
    As what Rubble hands over to the party at the shooting range appears to refer to an item ID,
    its possible to change item #464 into e.g. a musket, and use the appearance IDs 145/146 for a new weapon class.

    "Making the ghosts harder in Lower Martens Bluff (or pur in some other nasty surprise) is a good idea"
    no comment

    "Meteor Hammer" + "Qusar rifle"
    Stamina vampires, high weight also cuts additional attacks/swings, dont even think of using them;)
    Additionally the hammer is an "automatic drop" item (CC80 <-> hex spell)
    i prefer in_any_case_useable items, perhaps excerpt for CC weapons on monks
    Last edited by townltu; 04-15-2012 at 07:27 AM. Reason: Missing option to disable graphical smilies in user CP, respective missing option to do so in a quick reply.

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    Your recurring nightmare Lord Shield's Avatar
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    I did think the Glabrezu was a bit overpowered. I beat it first time (though it came close), but the battle took nearly an hour. The fight with the DS was shorter (though I had to reload a few times because of the deranged gaze). I think that maybe the monster's levels should be tweaked a bit lower. Not being a power-leveller, I found my offensive spellcasting next to useless most times, and likewise my resistances did diddlysquat a lot of the time. The dragon in the Primary Rocks was an issue at first, until I cottoned onto the idea of combat running to the edge of the area, and keeping a couple of the helazoids in front of me to stop the dragon getting too close. Then I hit him with range while keeping BoS on my front row to stop the helazoids affecting them

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    Newbie ojajebie's Avatar
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    I have finished Reforged 1.1 and the difficulty was ok for me. The whole mid-game I was using Dodd the Slayer Blaster (15% instant kill chance, no ammo required, good dmg) for almost all of my toons + random melee weapon. There is no a class restriction for new modern weapons, so I made some lvls of my toons as gadgeters to boost up my modern weapon skill to 100 and after that I switched them to their main classes.
    The end-game was challenging, but as soon as u get imba end-game weapons like Triton Fork, Xeno Tail Whip, Masamune Blade, T1 Endoarm, Malmir, etc.. the game becomes kinda easier, but still enjoyable of course, because Wizardry series is not only about a turn based-combat joy.

    I had in a party just one pure gadgeter (125 modern weapon skill), so with Qusar Rifle and later with Phoonzang Power Glove she was an unstoppable killing machine. A class like a ranger have become obsolete. Even my ninja with 2x Doom Star didn't deal so much damage and ranged criticals as any class with Dodd the Slayer Blaster.
    Almost any of big bosses of Reforged mod died from a critical hit, either from Dodd the Slayer Blaster or a melee weapon with an instant kill chance like Masamune Blade.

    So, what I suggest:
    - ammo required for all new modern weapons, powerpacks perhaps;
    - powerpacks could be dropped by random mobs or place them in random locations;
    - I would nerf a bit some weapons, but I would NOT add a cursed status to them;
    - I would add some weapons for other classes and races (if it is possible) like imba bows/xbows for rangers. Faeries cannot use most of the new weapons and an archetypal faerie ninja + Cane of Corpus is really weak for a Reforged mod difficulty.

    To sum up, The Reforged mod is really difficult and that is great, but when you know the game well, then it become kinda easier, but still is ok.

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    the master townltu's Avatar
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    Thanks for the new feedback, some comments

    glabrezu/Schazzwozzer is a spawned monster,
    wozzers of different power will appear according to players choice in interaction with Soul Warden at start,
    but i tend not to change him by default(=selection "no modification at all" respectively option: "combat difficulty" set to "normal")
    Of course selecting "combats: easy" will simultaneously change difficulty of all other variable encounters.
    But you can still change the games difficulty level,
    for a spawned moster that should come into effect as long as it hasnt beeen spawned.

    as written all encounters with placed monsters will only be made easier with support from friendly monster(s)
    Modifiations on modern weapons are already intended similar to suggestion
    martial will get some love, also rangers but they probably go better with modern weapons in this mod.
    ( ranged crits + mods modern weapon bonus items may make them better than gadgies)

    I checked the fairies weapon restrictions in CF item list,
    probably more than enough other choices of new powerful weapons
    despite an unrealistic high weight they will stay useable except 2 or 3.
    Sorry but i will not reestablish the imo ridiculously imbalancing state e.g. a fairy nin has in vanilla,
    not because of an admittedly existing aversion,
    i cant see any indication that the mod attempts to do so.

    @Q
    pls correct me if i am wrong



    Quote Originally Posted by Creosote
    One or two tough spell casters throwing high level debilitating and kill spells at the group
    is far more powerful than a couple of extremely high level melee monsters.
    I dont know if this is possible but difficulty could be adjusted by the type of monster group,
    the higher the difficulty, the more powerful the monster spell-casters, ranging say from no spell casters
    through one medium level spell casters, right up to two high level spell casters.
    Placed monsters vary only in level, which has some impact on combat and casting power,
    encounter tables offer much higher variations but without much control what monsters will do
    and probably also more flaws, like unintend spawns of high lvl mobs, experienced in different mods.

    For the mod "internal" combat difficulty beyond normal i will add enforcement to bosses and probably "too weak" fixed encounters.
    Perhaps something like this ?
    Last edited by townltu; 04-20-2012 at 08:21 PM.

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    Newbie zauria's Avatar
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    lol, the Snapper's (in the dungeon) are real slow, takes about a minute for each to swim up to me

    (haven't been able to defeat them yet either, someone always gets killed)
    Last edited by zauria; 04-23-2012 at 09:51 AM.

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    the master townltu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zauria View Post
    lol, the Snapper's (in the dungeon) are real slow, takes about a minute for each to swim up to me

    (haven't been able to defeat them yet either, someone always gets killed)
    thx for feedback

    i also found this a really hard encounter when starting with "fresh" solo,
    i took several retreats to the healing pool in the building with father pontifex.
    Think i will adjust it by switching the turtles resistancies in water/air
    and replacing a few things "upstairs" with fairie dust.

    Movement appears to have some issues connected to the model, which usually swims.

    When they approach, how fast do their legs move?,
    How did you adjust monster movement in game?
    The mod also contains wiz8fast, a little program located in the install folder which enables max movement speed...

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    Newbie zauria's Avatar
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    the fight speeds are good (arrows and spells), so no complaints their, its great. The turtle flippers animation was fine, just they didn't get far with each paddle. I also noticed bibles going up in the air as if they were under water
    Also some of the doors are a tight squeeze to get into, dont know if thats meant to be.
    Nice new roaches (bugs)

    "How did you adjust monster movement in game" ? dont understand.


    By the way, anyway of correcting the lighting for some of the characters that are very dark (Brunatz etc..)?
    (can post example if req.)
    Last edited by zauria; 04-23-2012 at 01:34 PM.

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    Newbie zauria's Avatar
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    Just came across a bug (problem), I was heading to the ramp to the level were the door with skull is and was attacked by Hardshell crabs that were in the water underneath the bridge. I cant hit them except Noxious fumes, but they can hit me from below.

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    the master townltu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zauria View Post
    The turtle flippers animation was fine, just they didn't get far with each paddle. I also noticed bibles going up in the air as if they were under water
    not yet sure whether i can skinswap the bubbles texture to blank in mls file,
    might cause crash because 2 anims dont have particles and dont contain that texture,
    and for cosmetic issue of single used monster a second animset appears to much.

    But at least the will move much faster.

    If you dont want to wait:
    Just in case create a copy of file [\data\monsters\snapper.mls]
    and open the original with a plain text editor like notepad,

    Change the value for "movementrate" to 2.5, save file, done.



    Quote Originally Posted by zauria View Post
    Also some of the doors are a tight squeeze to get into, dont know if thats meant to be.
    Basically a good thing as also a single small monsters may block others if party is placed right behind/aside the doorway.
    In case you have serious issues like extreme slowdown in doorways (often with "pop out" as soon as passed)
    or even cant pass them at all, pls report exactly which one,
    they all worked for me so i cant just run through the dungeon to check them.

    Quote Originally Posted by zauria View Post
    "How did you adjust monster movement in game" ? dont understand.
    In game select "options" > General tab
    when playing phased as usual i have combat and monster movement at max
    (after >100 runs you dont have to see how exactly they move, you know it :D

    Quote Originally Posted by zauria View Post
    By the way, anyway of correcting the lighting for some of the characters that are very dark (Brunatz etc..)?
    (can post example if req.)
    checked him yesterday, think he is okay without any light spell,
    if you have commonly dark output try to adjust "gamma/brightness" (options > video)

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    Newbie zauria's Avatar
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    Thanks!
    Made the snapper mod, and see what happens.
    Doors no problem, understand the thought on monsters.
    Ok, Combat mode Phased and at 2.5X, moved it up to 3.5.

    Color comparison
    http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/.../Wiz800001.jpg
    http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/...z8_Father2.jpg

    Any work being done to put voices to the new characters ?


    Why cant Valkyrie were Leather boots in this one, or should I ask ?
    Last edited by zauria; 04-24-2012 at 11:20 AM.

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    "comparism"
    Yes, but you are in a dungeon without active light spell.
    (hmm, perhaps i should add a candle/lamp/torch?)
    btw you all should be happy that the initially intended dungeon has not been integrated!
    With lvl7 light you could hardly see what happened on your own square
    as the wall material literally sucked the light
    Automap did not work, you had to rely on the good old selfmade map
    or an item which showed the map when dropped.
    I must admit that even as creator and old scool p&p/crpg
    i had difficulties to reach the "last door"

    "voices for the new characters"
    not quite sure what characters do you refer to, the NPCs?
    Because of the ongoing works on their scripting
    it appears literally impossible to cut the speechsets in appropriate time,
    at least for my skills in sound editing.
    The update may contain a RPC,
    who will probably use the most of Urq`s script and and altered version the voiceset.
    Of course i could send the script text with demand to deliver the perfecrly cut and well sorted mp3 files in at least 48, better 24h,
    but wouldnt that be a lil rude? ;)

    btw i have a klingon "voiceset", meaning many "quapla"s and some single words


    "Why cant Valkyrie were Leather boots in this one, or should I ask ?"

    Its because Q knows exactly what women need:
    clean kitchens and nice shoes like buskins, goatfoot boots and stiletto tripplers,
    not the simple dirty leather boots, really doesnt look nice :D

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    Newbie zauria's Avatar
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    "comparism"
    -I didnt have a light spell at the time.

    "voices fot the new characters"
    -NPC's yup, thanks! Wondering how computer animated voices software has come along in the last few decades

    "Why cant Valkyrie were Leather boots in this one, or should I ask ?"
    -LOL

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    It appears as if the pic of the boss enforcement has not been integrated correctly in my posting from 04-21-2012,
    at least Q mentioned it though i can see it in my browser after refreshing cache.

    Ok, pic of the enforcement,
    you see i was lucky to cast a timestop exactly in the right moment,
    else even screenshots dont work with this creature :D
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    LOL, would have loved to work on some of that stuff

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    "Beholders" aka "Eye Tyrants" are one of my favorite monsters, so I love that picture!

    Thanks for all the info on modern weapons earlier in the thread; it's helped immensely, especially the part about how to reload when a gun is empty.

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    for the 1st time during playtest in the update i got the infamous crash message:

    [ MonsterIsCycleSupported(pMonsterInfo->p3D, CYCLE_BIRTH) ] evaluates to false
    Unborn monster must have CYCLE_BIRTH!

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    Quote Originally Posted by townltu View Post
    for the 1st time during playtest in the update i got the infamous crash message:

    [ MonsterIsCycleSupported(pMonsterInfo->p3D, CYCLE_BIRTH) ] evaluates to false
    Unborn monster must have CYCLE_BIRTH!
    I ran into that one in the undead ruins part of the Mine Road. I have frequent crashes from memory overload in that area too (my computer has only 250MB RAM). Exiting the game and rebooting the computer always fixes both kinds of crashes for me.

    BTW, no one has mentioned the whirlpool...the first time I saw it my level 15 party just couldn't resist jumping in, and, well, that's an adventure I'll never forget. Run away, run away!

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    Hi, and thanks for the great mod from a forum newbie.

    I wouldn't at least increase the boss monster strengths too much without balancing the game otherwise. My initial try in 1.1 was more or less my standard wizardry 8 party (samurai, ranger, faerie psionic, bishop, gadgeteer and bard). I didn't realise until much later how weak this combination is in reforged. Spellcasters were more or less what was expected and the gadgeteer did great but I couldn't find any proper weapons for samurai, bard or ranger to inflict any decent damage.

    Ranger seems just puny in upper levels compared to gadgeteer with an upgraded omnigun. Bard can't use modern weapons or most of the better melee stuff, and his instruments just don't cause any conditions to any of the stronger monsters.

    Samurai would be able to wield decent melee weapons BUT my pet 1.1 hate is the fact that most new or stronger monsters now fight at "extended" range. Losing turns to stronger foes by having to advance a little after every kill is just not worth the trouble.

    My second try was much better as the front line tanks were wearing spears/whips, not swords, and by replacing the crappy bard with another gadgeteer I managed to dispatch most of the bosses with the first try. The spider in the initial beach (don't remember her name) was the only one causing more trouble, as well as the necromani boss.

    I may be a bore but to me the point of Wizardry or any game in that genre is the feeling of adventure, and to achieve that the game doesn't need to be excessively difficult. If it is and every fight must be restarted over and over again and then barely won by the 42nd try, it takes the fun out of it.


    Also, I'd like to second those comments complaining about endless pile of cursed items. What's the point of adding a good item and saddling it with SP/HP drain and making the item cursed? I don't know what is the logic behind these items but I don't think many people are actually using them. Too much hassle to switch them on before a fight, then uncurse, remove, use other gear, swap again etc etc etc ad nauseam. If an item is too strong in your opinion and need to be compensated by this, why not make the item a bit weaker but uncursed?

    Setting these minor irritations aside, this is a great mod that really changed the vanilla game.

    H

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    Creator of Reforged Mod 1.1 Qusari's Avatar
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    While reading the other thread I saw someone mention that a ranger is needed for his scouting abilities. This reminded me that I most probably placed all new items as visible (not hidden) ; for me the risk that someone does not uncover a hidden important item was too big to hide the new items. Just wanted to mention this in case.....

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    some lunastralis left overs:

    Dwarven country

    quest items can be used in fight although they are marked as critical:

    could you please change spell usage type: bomb powder

    to =none

    for Powder o Glory / Powder o Glory and Fame / Mush / Psychotropicum ?



    Edit: maybe delete also contained spells; so people do not even get the idea to use it in a fight

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    @Qusari
    i had the idea to set its [amount/charge type] to zero based-persistent
    that way players can use the spell and will still keeep the triggering item.

    too benevolent?


    "hidden quest items"
    confirmed, no placed quest items are hidden, but e.g. the ram head is contained in a dynamiy object,
    which requires at least the player to have searching/Detect Secrets activated.
    I would keep them, have even added similar for not quest related items or a joke

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    What can happen sometimes is that the party goes into an extended battle, during which detect secrets expires. Afterwards, it's easy enough to forget to recast detect secrets for some period of time. One would hate to miss a quest item because of that delay.

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    Creator of Reforged Mod 1.1 Qusari's Avatar
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    sounds good

    Will soon be back from my texture shooting trip,

    ........................got some new stuff in stock

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    @Qusari : "Ishnigarrab"
    10Mxp for slaying an ally? i am tempted to set them to zero
    and only a "no" from you can prevent me from doin it;)

    He drops the real cosmo polis, intended?
    afair that item is achievable at another place.
    (why i know this? dragon anim tweak test;)

    He exists twice, i think probably because if his 1st instance dies, the 2nd wouldnt have no NPC function
    (art least thats my experience with traders)
    or is there any other cause?


    btw OT, had the idea of seting the 3D window frame transparent,
    but unfortunately it does not work, perhaps i made a mistake?
    The game runs in full screen 3D without any additional elements visible,
    if the old wiz.exe is used in combination with cmwz8tr.exe+Keys[ctrl]+[F8]
    If familar playing with keyboard shortcuts, the probably geilste way to play the game.

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    Creator of Reforged Mod 1.1 Qusari's Avatar
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    he exists 2 times because the "NPC disappears" by script after you met him the first time around the green crystals on Pirat Island

    for the fight against the other I created a second instance, most probably for not screwing up the dialog, so I get a new round of greetings and starter dialog for a new monster ID and script. This was the easiest way for correct NPC dialogs ..... = without using Facts.

    You can set the exp to = 0 no prob, theo. ? it should not be possible to fight him ?

    Ahh yes he should not drop the Cosmo Polis probably better to remove it, I think I changed the whole thing between 1.0 and 1.1 and forget to delete it.


    : For the 2 Instances setup; Originally it is also made like this by Sirtech for instances of Aletheides.. and the Dark Svant
    Last edited by Qusari; 05-24-2012 at 12:47 PM.
    Find all Wiz 8 mods exclusively on this site:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qusari View Post
    he exists 2 times because the "NPC disappears" by script after you met him the first time around the green crystals on Pirat Island

    for the fight against the other I created a second instance, most probably for not screwing up the dialog, so I get a new round of greetings and starter dialog for a new monster ID and script. This was the easiest way for correct NPC dialogs ..... = without using Facts.
    good to know, thx, will probably stay as is because:
    You can set the exp to = 0 no prob, theo. ? it should not be possible to fight him ?
    in case [Cannot be fought with] he will also not fight with the party,
    some players will probably miss the support, others the "opportunity"
    (i remember a "sorry boy, but i need challenges, no cakewalks")

    Ahh yes he should not drop the Cosmo Polis probably better to remove it, I think I changed the whole thing between 1.0 and 1.1 and forget to delete it.
    its always a pleasure to reduce the treasure

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    Creator of Reforged Mod 1.1 Qusari's Avatar
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    Okay I think I see the deeper meaning now .... hmmmm ...hmmm ...hmm

    There is also a small edit in my last post

    and I try to increase my post count.
    Find all Wiz 8 mods exclusively on this site:
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    ": For the 2 Instances setup; Originally it is also made like this by Sirtech for instances of Aletheides.. and the Dark Svant"
    Yes, Sir Tech, prolly good team of coders, but they did not have the Cosmic Forge! :D

    Quote Originally Posted by Qusari View Post
    and I try to increase my post count.
    a high postcount is only a sure sign of posting much crap, look at me

    btw, have you noticed the reputation cheatings on this board?
    in case you dont like to see others reps any more, block
    Code:
    http://www.postcount.net/forum/images/reputation/*

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    I've been playing Reforged 1.1 for the last couple of weeks. At the Savant City now, should be finished in the very near future.

    A pretty abusable bug I found is that you can keep giving the Chronos over and over again to Zodnaz Ar Zenicce for 1,000,000 experience each time. Although for the purpose of playing I only gave it once.

    Here are also some random issues/opinions I have with some of the items:
    • Stone Pro Water gives an odd skill bonus to Fire Magic, while every other Stone Pro item gives a skill bonus to their respective types
    • On a related note, Stone Pro Airs is completely unavailable due to the monster dropping it (Giant Bat in Trynton) not being accessible
    • Priest Stola gives a skill bonus to Wizardry despite being a Priest item (although technically the Bishop could make use of it...)
    • Dragon Tooth, a melee weapon, gives a nonsensical skill bonus to Eagle Eye
    • Nuucruul, a staff, gives a nonsensical skill bonus to Polearm
    • Wormhole Generator is not equippable despite it supposedly giving equip bonuses, and is marked as a Critical Item for some reason
    • Triton Fork and Maenad's Lance (the best and second best polearms essentially) are located so close to each other that the latter seems kind of pointless. I'd recommend relocating Maenad's Lance somewhere else.
    • Meteor Hammer should be relocated rather than buffing the difficulty of the Marten's Bluff area; maybe switch places with Dragon Slayer in the Rapax Rift since that weapon is such a gigantic disappointment compared to the battle you have to fight to earn it...


    Also some videos I made on how to cheap out certain bosses, if it helps to point out anything...

    Brombadeg:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfjL8cxn9Iw

    Ghatanothoa:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2NDyxWuZNM

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    Creator of Reforged Mod 1.1 Qusari's Avatar
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    Thanks for the nice feedback, thats always valuable.

    Savant City, yes almost finished now. Would be nice to hear your feedback when you have finished the game

    Hmm the Brombadeg (sniping) calls for a camera drive/telport thing ? something like the Scorpion Queen in the dessert ? Where you are blown into the area (funnel wind)
    could be explained story wise easily, since brombadeg is supposed to exist on another plane... if one wants to be especially mean, it could be made so that the party arrives behind Brombadeg...... this way you have to kill him first bevor reaching the door. Or lets forget the door and directly use the teleporter (eye thing) to return to ........somewhere .... townltu ..... your part

    Ghatanoa is looking more tricky since he is on the platform and coming in via monster spwan trigger .... but here also...... the monster spwan trigger could actually applied to the coin pilles .....so he shows only up when you try to loot his stuff ... sounds not too bad doesnt it ? (just apply everywhere the same trigger pointing to the monster spwan...on the other hand one has to be carefull that Gath does not show up on top of the party ........ in that respect the game engine is not very flexible
    Find all Wiz 8 mods exclusively on this site:
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    1st thanks a lot @Jadefang for the excellent feedback in words and video

    Funnily during exploit check i made the same experience with Brombadeg.
    In some cases the beast managed to enter the buildings mesh and followed the party several rounds.

    I would not like make a "dead" or "champion" situation for out of each required encounter,
    besides the fact that e.g. the encounter after scorpio camdrive can be avoided.
    wont say how but killed all scorpios except the queen with lvl2 ninja and l8Myles/l9Madras as backing
    mainly G A made it possible at all

    For brombadeg i am thinking of a zone with decisive handicap for fighting,
    but for badly hurt parties on retreat without automatic loss of members
    Or perhaps only those that do not survive the hex spell?

    Also i made brombadeg somewhat smaller so it can move&turn somewhat better.

    And i promise the encounter will get definitely harder if mod internal combat difficulty is set beyond normal


    The drag isnt yet clear, perhaps he will land on the only way to the platform which collapses,
    so that parties can only leave after combat by use of a dynamic object.
    Or flying DOs which block missiles, physical wall around the platform?
    Let walls and ground glow or lava/boiling water pour in and force to enter gateway/platform?
    Or change the drag against one big and several small eyes?
    not yet sure, anyway thanks for feedback



    btw @ all who checked the Ghatanothoa vid, you can see that the drag sometimes swaps placement,
    usually its appears 3 "Wiz8 units" to much in front of its real place, also the tail sweep is unspectacular.
    a is fixed, b will hopefully be visible



    The audience is over, may now proceed playing. Make me proud!

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    The thing about Ghatanothoa (and other places with ledges, like the Ninja Dojo) is that the party can exploit the fact that although they can run off ledges, monsters are forced to always take the long path around. Though I combat ran through Ghatanothoa's trigger in the video, it wasn't particularly necessary, and I could have just as easily ran off the ledge during the first round of combat with him. To prevent something like this, a barrier around the platform would probably have to be made (like the Necromani Vanguard battle), or teleporting to a different, non-exploitable area.

    Having him appear when clicking an object to trigger isn't a bad idea, though, since location triggers can easily be cheated by combat running (for instance, I beat the group of spirits guarding the Sky Disc fragment in the Swamp by combat running through their trigger while having my spellcasters ready their most powerful spells, and they all died in the surprise round of combat).

    Also related to the Ninja Dojo, I actually beat the 3 white ninjas when they somehow got stuck trying to move around the top corners of the ledges, and sniped them to death. The biggest issue here is probably pathfinding AI.
    Last edited by Jadefang; 05-25-2012 at 02:26 PM.

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    @Qusari

    Astral Abduction, ID601 has only 10 as value for casting power assigned. Intended; or 100 meant and missing one 0; ... ?
    Think it should be >150.

    Btw ID601 uses the spell Anti-Magic, could be too heavy for a cam drive triggered scenario like this
    edit: sorry, confused Eglund with Nebdar encounter , prolly eben harder
    as i want to set A-M back to "Target: Group" and extend its range to "thrown",
    then assign the spell to 2-3 existing mons and the new for whom its simply a "must",
    its also already integrated into some anti exploit thingies. btw you can trigger looooooots of spells simultaneously :D
    I also found at least 2 workarounds how to trigger them several times during a single combat round!

    Parties will have a chance to get limited access to the spell.
    Last edited by townltu; 05-27-2012 at 07:12 AM. Reason: confusion corrected

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    An early game difficult situation I keep encountering is entering the monastery. The party gets dumped inside the front entrance, where there is a greeting party waiting for them, including a Higardi turncoat who within two rounds will cast a freeze flesh spell that usually incapacitates half or more of my party. If I try to run, I find that I cannot head directly for the first side doorway because I'm too far down the ramp. Instead, I have to retreat a ways, sidestep, and then head for the doorway. It's very difficult to get out of range and you have to hope the whole party doesn't get paralyzed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjstf View Post
    An early game difficult situation I keep encountering is entering the monastery.
    The party gets dumped inside the front entrance, where there is a greeting party waiting for them,
    including a Higardi turncoat who within two rounds will cast a freeze flesh spell that usually incapacitates half or more of my party.
    If I try to run, I find that I cannot head directly for the first side doorway because I'm too far down the ramp.
    Instead, I have to retreat a ways, sidestep, and then head for the doorway.
    It's very difficult to get out of range and you have to hope the whole party doesn't get paralyzed.
    Thanks for feedback

    Think the encounter is designed to be that way and from distinct level on, estimated 10-12, it becomes much easier.

    One could say it should not be possible to reach the encounter a too early,
    but thats part of non linear RPGs, it is also very easy in vanilla to reach Nesssie at very low level,
    bet an import party could do that without earning more than one level
    Also Columns can be repeteadly used as cover so pells cant be targeted at the party, more tactics prolly exist ;)
    Some easy achieveable items (Murkatos) can rise whole party`s spell resistance not only for this encounter,
    but even for some of the toughest in this mod.



    @Qusari
    got another bmfh idea:
    how about changing the coordinates for Z`ant randomly, lets say 20 different values?
    One could give still spoilers like : try all numbers from "20:21" to "20:40"

    There are more things in the game which could vary in a similar way, though they may not offer a numbers "natural" bandwidth :D

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    Can't give much feedback since I never got a chance to play 1.1 much but looking forward to give it a try when 1.2 comes out(might as well wait a bit rather than restart). Can only add one thing that there's a demand for higher than average difficulty mods, looking back at how dodd 2.4 was received on VN. I'd guess that majority of people who still play wiz8 have probably played through vanilla several times, already know much about the game, all the powerleveling tricks, how to optimally build classes etc...
    I personally never had as much fun figuring out the ideal party for dodd, even if that included countless restarts. I still remember epicness the party that included 2 dwarven shield VIT+PIE(early iron skin/will) fighters in Dodd.. about the only mod that made such builds incredibly useful. Earlier dodd versions contained regular and expert editions from what I remember, even though this is probably outside of the scope of the project you're working on towntlu.

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    Creator of Reforged Mod 1.1 Qusari's Avatar
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    Astral Abduction is not used ingame at the moment (just in case you did not see it) other than that you can put the magic value as you want no prob.

    hmmm I am starting to forget things ... not sure if I am right or not ... wasnt the Anti-Magic spell one of the spells which are not working when cast by monsters ? but as said I am not sure if thats correct or not ...
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  49. #49
    Creator of Reforged Mod 1.1 Qusari's Avatar
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    Hi town

    you have a solution that the numbers/coordinates keep chaning each started game ? That would be marvelous. Normaly I abuse the coordinates to gain easy exp fast. But if you have found a way to keep the numbers changing. That would be cool so the quest really has to be done each time correctly...

    got another bmfh idea:
    how about changing the coordinates for Z`ant randomly, lets say 20 different values?
    One could give still spoilers like : try all numbers from "20:21" to "20:40"

    There are more things in the game which could vary in a similar way, though they may not offer a numbers "natural" bandwidth
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  50. #50
    the master townltu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qusari
    Astral Abduction is not used ingame atm...
    you are correct, i thought 601 is contained in a spawn but apparently it is not.
    Was it ever? Rather sure that i got an Anti-Mag based crash during one of the earlier runs, probably 2nd or 3rd,
    though i think the mon looked like a rapax skel, not like a djinn.

    "not working"
    the error message states ~ "2nd cylce for spell is missing"
    Deathstalker already assigned it in his changed antimagic script like
    Code:
    FLASH1        antimag
            SOUND_FRAME FLASH1 0 anti-magic
    TARGET1     mon_buff_air
            SOUND_CYCLE TARGET1 0 spell expiry
    rem [spell expiry.wav] : \sound\misc\
    Got 50-100 antimag spells during different sessions from monsters
    and triggered the spell from item >30 times, without a single crash.
    From that i would say it works rather stable.
    Btw i got the impression an A-M from trap is more effective than from spell by monster/item

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