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Thread: Complete newbie party advice unmodded

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    Lightbulb Complete newbie party advice unmodded

    Hi; my experience with grid based and these types of party based RPG's pretty much starts and stops with legend of grimmrock and fall of the dungeon guardians (great little gem, highly recommended) and i fell in love with the genre from those 2 so i went looking and found wizardry 8 and read that it was basically the holy grail of this genre so i had to try it.

    since this game is incredibly old im having a little trouble getting use to well.. just how vast and extensive this type of party customization is so im looking for any type of advice or help with my current party laid out, ive done a little research on these forums (redirected here from gamefaq's) and i remember reading something about "Training"? and how bishop is bad without it (if im wrong in any of this feel free to correct, id rather learn the right way than be wrong). i dont plan to do any sort of training per se and just plan to play the normal game at the normal difficulty completely blind. I would like to get the party compesition right so i dont feel at any point in the game that its my party thats wrong rather than what im doing (if thats even possible) i also plan to probably take the same party comp into expert mode eventually

    Female Dragon Fighter <<< Main tank basically party position top left

    +20 STR +20 DEX +20 SPEED

    +5 SWORD +5 SHIELD +5 CLOSE COMBAT

    plan to build this guy basically a brick wall, is that good? is there even taunts in the game? should i bother?

    Female Hobbit Rogue << Party position top right

    +20 STR +20 DEX +20 SPEED

    +5 DUAL WEAPONS +5 DAGGERS +5 LOCKS AND TRAPS

    plan to build this guy glass cannon basically with offpoints in locks and traps

    Female Rawluff Bard << Middle left

    +5 INT +5 PIETY +5 SPEED

    +5 ARTIFACTS +5 COMMUNICATION +5 MUSIC

    i think the bard is a party buffer enemy debuffer? so moving along those lines, with minor points in the speech and identification things

    Male Mook Ranger << Middle right


    +14 DEX +14 SPEED +12 SENSE

    +5 RANGED COMBAT +5 SCOUTING +5 BOW

    shoot stuff and scout stuff i guess?

    Male dwarf priest << Bottom left

    +17 INTELLIGENCE +17 PIETY +16 SPEED

    +1 HEAL WOUNDS +1 BLESS

    +5 DIVINITY +5 DIVINE MAGIC +5 MYTHOLOGY

    Purely ok with this dude been pure defensive and just on bitch duty, went with mythology instead of communication because bard is better at it (apparently priest is useless? even with no training?)

    Male elf mage << bottom right

    +15 INTELLIGENCE +15 PIETY +15 SPEED

    +1 FROST (does it slow or freeze?) +1 SLEEP

    +5 WIZARDY +5 FROST MAGIC +5 AIR MAGIC

    pew stuff from behind the deck, general aoe spam i guess?


    if theres anything that should be changed just yell this is just going off best guess and what the ingame descriptions say. should i change any classes? i dont know what questions i should be asking because blind lol

    also what about teh formation thing in the bottom right, should i just leave it?

  2. #2
    Newbie Erkilmarl's Avatar
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    Yup, I still think W8 is the best game of it's genre. It can be won with any combination of characters, but will certainly be very difficult without any kind of training. IMO it was really meant to be played with an imported party and it's beginning is too short and hasty for developing a party from the beginning, if you don't spend some extra time in the Monastery that is. Your party will earn levels fast though. It may help.

    Party position is very important. Don't ever let monsters attack you from the rear, hug walls, retreat to crevices especially on the open road. You should put your Ranger and Bard in the flank positions and spellcasters in the middle.

    I don't think you need to buff mythology, scouting or communications. They will be developed naturally. Artifacts will be too, it is better to get the spell Identify and use it repeatedly (or is it considered training?).
    Not Aelfinn or Eelfinn, but Realfinn

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    I don't think you need to buff mythology, scouting or communications. They will be developed naturally. Artifacts will be too, it is better to get the spell Identify and use it repeatedly (or is it considered training?).

    Ok cool what should i put the points on instead of those 3? and how do i get the spell identify? i dont think identifying things would be considered training since thats what the spell does, but more along the lines of repeatably casting spells even though they wouldnt do anything and stuff like that.

    are all my stat alllocations besides those 3 ok?

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    Newbie Erkilmarl's Avatar
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    Identify is a level 2 spell, your priest has to have 18 in divinity plus some levels. Fighting characters should put points in close and ranged combat, since the weapon skills will get more points after encounters. Somewhat same is true for spellcasters: put more points to their divinity/wizardry skills, but for different reasons: every 18 points there mean a new spell level to gain; in the realm skills you need only 5 points for casting spells reliably (you may start with less points if the spell doesn't hurt the party). You cannot get skill points for casting spells in vain, BTW.

    Magic in W8 isn't always as powerful as it could be. IMO it would be very difficult to use a spellcaster only for wiping out monsters. Soon you start encountering monsters that have a lot of HP. One monsters will not necessarily do much damage, but just trading blows would lead to party's demise. Spells that incapacitate monsters are very important. Healing and protection are essential, too. Later in the game you can make monsters' spellcasting mostly useless if you use all protection there is available.

    You should max Strength and Dexterity first. The Bard will take care of Speed later. Senses is useful to Ranger and Intelligence and Piety for spellcasters.

    You asked about the compass on the game screen. You should go here: http://www.zimlab.com/wizardry/ Download transparent compasses from there, and wiz8fast too, since without it fighting can be quite tedious.
    Last edited by Erkilmarl; 11-12-2016 at 06:00 AM.
    Not Aelfinn or Eelfinn, but Realfinn

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    Ok i installed Wiz8fast and it said X625 monster speed?! is that even remotely nessecary or just put in there for comedic effect, surely there cant be any fight where a 625 multiplier would be a dramatic increase over the 125 or even 25 multiplier.. right..?


    Ok awesome; so my stats are mostly in the right spots; i should have melee and ranged options for each class that can actually use it? so the fighter and rogue both get sling or throwing weapons or w/e just so they can do something at range and then just swap to melee when it counts; correct?

    also with the mage i should turn him into more of a control orientated spellcaster and not a damage dealer right? would that mean i turn my fighter into a damage dealer and have double melee or does the fighter benefit more from been a brick wall?

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    Newbie Erkilmarl's Avatar
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    Wiz8fast affects monster movement towards the party, at higher speeds they just seem to teleport. If you first try the regular, crawly speed monsters approach the party, you'll welcome any change in speed... combat animations aren't affected. But you are right, there cannot be much increase.

    You should definitely have both melee and ranged weapons for all. You don't have to put points into every skill, they do develop nicely when used.

    Control and protection are the important functions of magic. After Arnika you may meet up to nine Juggernauts, which have almost 300 HP each. They might be formidable opponents, but if most of them are webbed, asleep or otherwise incapacitated, they are a piece of cake for your party. If you were only fireballing them, they would be still be capable of hurting your characters badly during the rounds you would need to kill them. Of course, if you fall in love with this game you may want to try different things and even check if you can win the game with offensively oriented magic. But it seems to me that the developers wanted to make this game different from W7, where destructive magic really ruled.

    Your fighter will do double damage later: when her weapon skills rise and she doesn't seem to miss much, switch to berserk attack. Rogues may actually be even better damage dealers, because they will always do double damage.
    Not Aelfinn or Eelfinn, but Realfinn

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    ok great; thanks for all the help

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    Newbie Erkilmarl's Avatar
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    Silly mistake: spell level increase comes after every 15 points in the magic school skill. W7 had 18 point steps.
    Not Aelfinn or Eelfinn, but Realfinn

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    Priest is garbage take a bishop
    Speed is mostly garbage you can hit 255 speed cap with level 7 haste. If you want the early initiative boost then pump Senses it has equal initiative increase and the Eagle Eye expert skill from it is better than Snakespeed.
    Shield is garbage
    Piety should not be pumped early on a bard. Dex, Str, and Vit are more important.
    Artifacts is garbage you can easily powertrain it by splitting stacks
    Communication is garbage
    Mythology is garbage

    the fighter being a brick wall depends on if you are building a ranged party/KWM(Kill With Magic) party, or a melee party. A ranged/kwm party will often kill things before your tank can do much of anything and since he's slow as xmas he doesn't get as many hits in either to train. A bit of a wasted slot. Tank fighter for melee party. DPS fighter for dps party(if you don't know what kind of party you have - you have a melee party).

    Party formation is ok, but I prefer to utilize the middle slot to allow more melee attackers on the front targets. I move my dwarf fighter tank to the top slot when the back row needs to be defended from extended range attacks.

    Bishop has a bigger learning curve. Learning the training spots and what spells are needed when is critical. If done right you can have them going in two schools with minimal training.

    Minimum suggestions is drop priest add bishop(focus on divinity and wizardry), and drop mage and add an alchemist. Drop shields, speed, artifacts, communication, and mythology.
    Last edited by Sirius; 11-26-2016 at 01:40 AM.

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    Fighter + Rogue are great choices! Definitely strong classes and really smooth to play.

    I think it's a well rounded party magic wise, too. Divinity and Wizardry are great and the specialist casters fit your party nicely. Also you've got Alchemy with your Ranger so only Psionics is missing, which is fine imo. Not only did you pick what I'd consider the best schools, Divinity and Wizardry, but you also chose specialists, which can keep up with your party in development. The Bishop develops very, VERY slowly. He depends on heavy grinding to shine (foregoing the slow natural development). With that he's very good - without it he's not. Mage and Priest don't need grinding and develop naturally. It will allow you to ignore the hassle of grinding skills, which ought to be a god send especially for a beginner. Also specialist casters need fewer XP to level up, suiting your Fighter+Bard+Rogue, all of which are among the fastest to level up. Magic depends on levels a lot. It translates to power to have a relatively high levelled caster, compared to the overall party. A Bishop would fall far behind. Then again you shouldn't just mindlessly level up anyway.
    In any case your party members compliment each others. Certainly a convincing party.

    The game has level scaling: your average party level will also be your enemies' level (more or less anyway). Thus you do not want to level up unless you've got appropriate skills and equipment. Early on you got no equipment to justify a high level. I'd recommend finishing the monastery at level 5 or 6. Arnika helps and can easily get you to level 8-10. In XP and equipment. You'd be well set for exploring at that point.

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