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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Longhaul View Post
    "Supposing Word Fence's analysis is correct and the electronic forensic data so far collected gives no indication that the Russians were behind the hacking of the DNC computer systems, and that President Obama is in possession of no additional information to which the public is not privy, then did the president of the USA just expel all of Russia's diplomats and levy sanctions for no real reason?"
    How well is that supposition faring now?
    Well I think it's still pretty clear. IF their analysis of the report provided by FBI/DHS and that President Obama had no additional information that the public is not privy THEN maybe he did what he did for no reason.

    1. I think that it's clear to many people and has been explicitly stated that the intelligence agencies aren't going to go public with details. So what they gave was probably junk that was made to sound techie but for any real expert was total junk. The only surprising part is that they try to influence public opinion by giving anything at all.

    2. Obama obviously has other information. So that by itself...

    3. I'm sure Obama had a reason. What it is could be anything that probably will never come out. He had a reason to $#@! with Israel at the U.N. too, that is he hates their Prime Minister. Given that and his known feelings about Putin did he use that as excuse as a last ditch petulant middle finger to an adversary that by all optics beat the JV president like a drum? Maybe.

  2. #102
    I Am Fantastic Ability Hep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyx View Post
    Well I think it's still pretty clear. IF their analysis of the report provided by FBI/DHS and that President Obama had no additional information that the public is not privy THEN maybe he did what he did for no reason.
    And if my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike. I'm not criticizing the conclusion of the what-if. I'm criticizing the probability. Do you think the probability of him doing so for no reason is the same, if Trump is now saying it's probable, after adamantly denying it up to this point?
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  3. #103
    Token Ginger Longhaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Longhaul View Post
    "Supposing Word Fence's analysis is correct and the electronic forensic data so far collected gives no indication that the Russians were behind the hacking of the DNC computer systems, and that President Obama is in possession of no additional information to which the public is not privy, then did the president of the USA just expel all of Russia's diplomats and levy sanctions for no real reason?"
    How well is that supposition faring now?
    I think it was Russia,” Trump said at a news conference in New York when asked who was responsible for the public leaks of Democratic emails during the campaign.
    It doesn't look like it changes anything.

    If we are doing what-if's it is just as likely that the OMG Russia is being pushed to try and discredit Trumps election, that it is being clung to because it is the only way people who dislike Trump can rationalize his election, or that Obama is trying to leave a big foreign relations $#@! (hi Israel) in Trump's lap for him to deal with after his inauguration.
    Imagine if you were so corrupt that you used your grotesque power to become a presidential candidate and then your entire party crashed and burned because of how much of an evil, dishonest person you are.

  4. #104
    I Am Fantastic Ability Hep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longhaul View Post
    It doesn't look like it changes anything.
    Then let's be explicit with the same question: do you think the probability of Obama expelling all of Russia's diplomats and levy sanctions for no real reason is the same, if Trump is now saying it's probable, after adamantly denying it up to this point? Because if one agrees with Trump on the matter, then that changes the likelihood that the Russian hacking of the DNC didn't happen.

    If we are doing what-if's it is just as likely that the OMG Russia is being pushed to try and discredit Trumps election, that it is being clung to because it is the only way people who dislike Trump can rationalize his election, or that Obama is trying to leave a big foreign relations $#@! (hi Israel) in Trump's lap for him to deal with after his inauguration.
    "We"? Let's not act as if "we" are the one introducing what-ifs. You are. I simply showed the what-if you introduced is actually painting a different picture from the probability of the situation (assuming you agree with Trump, of course). But at least the goal posts on this forum have been moved from ridiculing the idea that Russia hacked the DNC, to whether or not it influenced the election.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyx View Post
    That this has been a story all week long is making me want Trump to get on his Twitter account frankly. I'm sick of it.
    Such a delicate snowflake...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoest9
    I think its clear that you should be allowed to carry weapons in the general public. It should be fine to restrict concealed carry as long as open carry is legal.

    This why its important to vote for Trump - even though hes a Giant Douche.

  6. #106
    Token Ginger Longhaul's Avatar
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    Imagine if you were so corrupt that you used your grotesque power to become a presidential candidate and then your entire party crashed and burned because of how much of an evil, dishonest person you are.

  7. #107
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    I guess that's the answer to my question, albeit not explicit.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyx View Post
    Well I think it's still pretty clear. IF their analysis of the report provided by FBI/DHS and that President Obama had no additional information that the public is not privy THEN maybe he did what he did for no reason.
    And if my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike. I'm not criticizing the conclusion of the what-if. I'm criticizing the probability. Do you think the probability of him doing so for no reason is the same, if Trump is now saying it's probable, after adamantly denying it up to this point?
    Yes I think the probability of him(Obama) doing it for no reason is the same (0%)

    My use of the word him above is to reflect your use of the word it.

    What Trump is saying and what "it" is I strongly suspect are not the same.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyx View Post
    Yes I think the probability of him(Obama) doing it for no reason is the same (0%)

    My use of the word him above is to reflect your use of the word it.

    What Trump is saying and what "it" is I strongly suspect are not the same.
    So then, wouldn't the implication of that happening be kinda dishonest? If one introduces that as a what-if, isn't it fair to rebut that idea with even Trump stating that there were probably better reasons for doing so? For that matter, I messed up by giving an out to the question, so that the subject of Russian involvement doesn't even need to be breached. I would amend my question to, whatever likelihood of Russian involvement in our electoral process was before Trump denied it, isn't it more likely, now that Trump has conceded that point?

    I realize the conclusion of whether or not their involvement was enough to make a difference is complex and subjective, allowing anyone to deny it no matter what, but there are people here who were indirectly and directly denying any Russian involvement whatsoever. Establishing that was probable is the most ground that can be gained, regardless if it was enough to influence the election or not.
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  10. #110
    Token Ginger Longhaul's Avatar
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    Imagine if you were so corrupt that you used your grotesque power to become a presidential candidate and then your entire party crashed and burned because of how much of an evil, dishonest person you are.

  11. #111
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    "I hate it when people spread disinformation and fake news with no substantiating evidence!"
    "It's probably from Clinton (no substantiating evidence)."

    And here I was thinking positive was being a lone horse with his ideology on this forum.
    I block all signatures. Feel free to ignore mine.

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