User Tag List

Results 1 to 39 of 39

Thread: 1.22C Autopsy-- From Necros to Pet Procs

  1. #1
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    279
    Likes (Given)
    37
    Likes (Received)
    85
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default 1.22C Autopsy-- From Necros to Pet Procs

    Hey all,

    After making such a ruckus about Necro's figured I would go ahead and share my thoughts on the most recent Necro changes implemented in 1.23C, as well as bring up some questions I will be looking at going forward while playing.

    First off, everyone who knows me knows I had necromancers as they were implemented in 1.23. I laid out a lot of points about why and how their spellkit had little to no counterplay, how they didn't seem to fit in the game, and were way too strong to leave in game and have the game be enjoyable. I haven't played versus a Necro tanker in awhile, but everything on paper sounds like great changes in the right direction. AF debuff delve being reduced to 15 seconds means if you want to play around a debuff you have to do what everyone else has to do, be coordinated and deliberate. Phantom pet was ridiculous and I am glad to see those numbers come down, it was unexpected that all caster pets would be ruptable now, but as a support player I'll take it. On a side note, the majority of my time playing lately has been in set up draft fights with no necromancers, and I have to say I am enjoying the game so much more and really think in terms of group fights it is in a more than decent place.

    So to close the book on Necromancers for now; Good job Broadsword on listening to feedback and the community. I know I was frustrated it took so long, but I am used to game companies like Valve and Blizzard, and the simple fact of the matter is, while Broadsword is trying to emulate their development practices of iteration, balance patches, etc it can't keep up with their speed and I get that.

    Let's talk about Pet procs and their removal. There is no knowing exactly why they were removed but I think we all know that Broadsword has been making some kind of concerted effort to push back against the popularity and prevalence of tanks-- Don't bring up free charge 5 please!! I believe this is why we saw "slows' introduced, which ended up backfiring as the easiest to use slows were just used in tank groups. It is not as if Casters are underpowered or weak, it's pretty much consensus that a well played caster or hybrid group crushes all, but they require the most coordination and are simply challenging to execute. Slows were an attempt to open up these kinds of groups to more players. Now that Pet procs are gone I know I am going to be paying close attention to both the overall strength of hybrids and caster groups and the ease of executing them well. From the very few fights I played so far on this patch, I have to say I felt a huge noticeable gap where the LT's pet procs once were. Maybe the players weren't adjusting well enough and using Astral blades, etc, so this will be something to pay attention to. I'm not sure whether this gap is a good thing or a bad thing and I think we will just have to wait and see how it plays out, as it is currently I am looking forward to Upcoming Melee Hybrid changes and interested how Broadsword will give them tools to fulfill the role of front-line interrupts.

    Some stuff to consider; If LT's are mean't to be "dangerous frontline damage dealers" and less of "major frontline interrupters" we should make sure that all LT's are performing within reasonable margins of each other in this capacity. I might just be echoing sentiment on PC and in-game but it seems like Savages are just such a bigger damage threat than other LT's-- I think just a few raw number crunches could either help dispel this myth that I and others put stock in or prove it to be true and show what needs tweaks.

    TLDR; I am both worried and excited by the possibilities of the removal of pet procs, I want people to think about how it effects the overall game and what kind of things they want implemented or not implemented when Broadsword gets around to filling the gap left by the removal of pet stances and serious nerf of pet procs when they focus "in on melee hybrids and support in that frontline interrupt role in upcoming versions".

    Cheers

  2. #2
    Sieging Advocate Sovereign's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    6,140
    Likes (Given)
    199
    Likes (Received)
    1277
    Mentioned
    111 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    I haven't played versus a Necro tanker in awhile, but everything on paper sounds like great changes in the right direction.

    So to close the book on Necromancers for now; Good job Broadsword on listening to feedback and the community.
    Hasn't experienced the necro changes but ready to pronounce the changes a success.
    RR12 Stormlord Wizard
    RR12 Warlord Cleric
    RR12 Warlord Minstrel

  3. #3
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    279
    Likes (Given)
    37
    Likes (Received)
    85
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Plays one realm only in Zergs, but is ready to speak impartially about the game.

  4. #4
    Youngest Elitist Tormidge's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    129
    Likes (Given)
    216
    Likes (Received)
    32
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    pet procs on astral is fine now

  5. #5
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    279
    Likes (Given)
    37
    Likes (Received)
    85
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    No electronic devices in school, sir.
    Last edited by Iowka; 03-17-2017 at 12:52 PM.

  6. #6
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    227
    Likes (Given)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    16
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    Hey all,

    After making such a ruckus about Necro's figured I would go ahead and share my thoughts on the most recent Necro changes implemented in 1.23C, as well as bring up some questions I will be looking at going forward while playing.

    First off, everyone who knows me knows I had necromancers as they were implemented in 1.23. I laid out a lot of points about why and how their spellkit had little to no counterplay, how they didn't seem to fit in the game, and were way too strong to leave in game and have the game be enjoyable. I haven't played versus a Necro tanker in awhile, but everything on paper sounds like great changes in the right direction. AF debuff delve being reduced to 15 seconds means if you want to play around a debuff you have to do what everyone else has to do, be coordinated and deliberate. Phantom pet was ridiculous and I am glad to see those numbers come down, it was unexpected that all caster pets would be ruptable now, but as a support player I'll take it. On a side note, the majority of my time playing lately has been in set up draft fights with no necromancers, and I have to say I am enjoying the game so much more and really think in terms of group fights it is in a more than decent place.

    So to close the book on Necromancers for now
    Not really true though is it?

    So you're happy with the class having no base AF buff? The slow spell was removed, but instead now gets a short range, disease node spell rather than a snare. So now it loses even its limited aoe cc ability.

    I also don't think that the book on the necro is closed. It now has a big target painted on it and people are gonna keep shootin' at it unfortunately.

  7. #7
    Newbie Poidragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    1,600
    Likes (Given)
    163
    Likes (Received)
    161
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    Plays one realm only in Zergs, but is ready to speak impartially about the game.
    How can you speak about being impartial, if you do not or have not played the toons in question? That sounds more like simple ignorance than experience talking, to me; as fighting against a class, is quite a different experience, than when your actually playing the class in qeuston and then saying your being "impartial" when changes occur to the class that changes the way it plays in rvr.

    I will agree that Necromancers and the other pet classes needed to be "toned down" but not gutted and tossed back in the closet. As the player population were given a revamped necromancer class that was not given a proper amount of testing time and refinement on the testing server before being thrown to the live server; where the pet classes wreaked havoc in rvr and totally and brutally smacked around in the PC forums, with many QQ'ing about them being "OP."

    Now that patch 1.122C has been pushed out to the live servers, it's now time to see what the changes are to the pet classes and to figure out how the classes in question can be played and whether or not they can be effective in rvr and be effective contributors to solo, small man and 8 man group play. As for the changes to the pet proccing weapons that are available in game, I still think it was effectively a "knee jerk reactionary response" from the dev's as many of those weapons were available and readily used for 15 years, before being nerfed for specious reasons. Well, I will end this post before it turns into a rant about the inherent problems that continue to plague DAoC, that are not being worked on.


  8. #8
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    279
    Likes (Given)
    37
    Likes (Received)
    85
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Poidragon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    Plays one realm only in Zergs, but is ready to speak impartially about the game.
    How can you speak about being impartial, if you do not or have not played the toons in question? That sounds more like simple ignorance than experience talking, to me; as fighting against a class, is quite a different experience, than when your actually playing the class in qeuston and then saying your being "impartial" when changes occur to the class that changes the way it plays in rvr.

    I will agree that Necromancers and the other pet classes needed to be "toned down" but not gutted and tossed back in the closet. As the player population were given a revamped necromancer class that was not given a proper amount of testing time and refinement on the testing server before being thrown to the live server; where the pet classes wreaked havoc in rvr and totally and brutally smacked around in the PC forums, with many QQ'ing about them being "OP."

    Now that patch 1.122C has been pushed out to the live servers, it's now time to see what the changes are to the pet classes and to figure out how the classes in question can be played and whether or not they can be effective in rvr and be effective contributors to solo, small man and 8 man group play. As for the changes to the pet proccing weapons that are available in game, I still think it was effectively a "knee jerk reactionary response" from the dev's as many of those weapons were available and readily used for 15 years, before being nerfed for specious reasons. Well, I will end this post before it turns into a rant about the inherent problems that continue to plague DAoC, that are not being worked on.

    Think our views are pretty much in line, I don't believe necros are tossed back in the trash can now and think they will remain playable in a variety of situations, if you are a necro player share your experience about this post patch. About pet procs/stances it does feel kind of random, but I have to make sense of it by saying its an attempt at encouraging more caster play or making playing casters more enjoyable and easier, which I think slows was also an attempt at but which didn't pan out.

  9. #9
    Member Everz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    15,160
    Likes (Given)
    151
    Likes (Received)
    1481
    Mentioned
    168 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Personally (as someone who loves pet classes) I'd like to see all pets removed from the game or at least just toned down to an annoyance before touching Necros again.

    everzsam1991#2143 - b.net


    Main Chimp/BG Chimp
    - Eversmall(10)/Everwind(10)/Everzorc(7)/Evervamp(7)/Everhard(7) + alts - SOLD

  10. #10
    Sieging Advocate Sovereign's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    6,140
    Likes (Given)
    199
    Likes (Received)
    1277
    Mentioned
    111 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    Plays one realm only in Zergs, but is ready to speak impartially about the game.
    While I mostly play Albion, I have played and do have characters across all realms. And your incorrect statement does nothing to refute my point.
    RR12 Stormlord Wizard
    RR12 Warlord Cleric
    RR12 Warlord Minstrel

  11. #11
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    NJ/CT
    Posts
    4,754
    Likes (Given)
    199
    Likes (Received)
    475
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Twitch Channel(s)
    View Channel: interdaoc

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rascarl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    Hey all,

    After making such a ruckus about Necro's figured I would go ahead and share my thoughts on the most recent Necro changes implemented in 1.23C, as well as bring up some questions I will be looking at going forward while playing.

    First off, everyone who knows me knows I had necromancers as they were implemented in 1.23. I laid out a lot of points about why and how their spellkit had little to no counterplay, how they didn't seem to fit in the game, and were way too strong to leave in game and have the game be enjoyable. I haven't played versus a Necro tanker in awhile, but everything on paper sounds like great changes in the right direction. AF debuff delve being reduced to 15 seconds means if you want to play around a debuff you have to do what everyone else has to do, be coordinated and deliberate. Phantom pet was ridiculous and I am glad to see those numbers come down, it was unexpected that all caster pets would be ruptable now, but as a support player I'll take it. On a side note, the majority of my time playing lately has been in set up draft fights with no necromancers, and I have to say I am enjoying the game so much more and really think in terms of group fights it is in a more than decent place.

    So to close the book on Necromancers for now
    Not really true though is it?

    So you're happy with the class having no base AF buff? The slow spell was removed, but instead now gets a short range, disease node spell rather than a snare. So now it loses even its limited aoe cc ability.

    I also don't think that the book on the necro is closed. It now has a big target painted on it and people are gonna keep shootin' at it unfortunately.
    When any dumb group can run alb tanks with a necro af debuffing and just stick targets down, the class is overpowered.

    My armsman should not be hitting skalds for 800 base repeatedly.

  12. #12
    Warrior Team Lead Hulkamania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Wrestlemania
    Posts
    1,799
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    100
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Inter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rascarl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    Hey all,

    After making such a ruckus about Necro's figured I would go ahead and share my thoughts on the most recent Necro changes implemented in 1.23C, as well as bring up some questions I will be looking at going forward while playing.

    First off, everyone who knows me knows I had necromancers as they were implemented in 1.23. I laid out a lot of points about why and how their spellkit had little to no counterplay, how they didn't seem to fit in the game, and were way too strong to leave in game and have the game be enjoyable. I haven't played versus a Necro tanker in awhile, but everything on paper sounds like great changes in the right direction. AF debuff delve being reduced to 15 seconds means if you want to play around a debuff you have to do what everyone else has to do, be coordinated and deliberate. Phantom pet was ridiculous and I am glad to see those numbers come down, it was unexpected that all caster pets would be ruptable now, but as a support player I'll take it. On a side note, the majority of my time playing lately has been in set up draft fights with no necromancers, and I have to say I am enjoying the game so much more and really think in terms of group fights it is in a more than decent place.

    So to close the book on Necromancers for now
    Not really true though is it?

    So you're happy with the class having no base AF buff? The slow spell was removed, but instead now gets a short range, disease node spell rather than a snare. So now it loses even its limited aoe cc ability.

    I also don't think that the book on the necro is closed. It now has a big target painted on it and people are gonna keep shootin' at it unfortunately.
    When any dumb group can run alb tanks with a necro af debuffing and just stick targets down, the class is overpowered.

    My armsman should not be hitting skalds for 800 base repeatedly.
    Well Necros can still AF debuff, but it'll require much more coordination being a 15s debuff as opposed to 45s. Removing "slow" & toning down the Phantom pet was a great move by Broadsword.

    It's unfortunate the changes to the Necro & pets in general took so long I'm afraid to many subs have been lost at this point. Hopefully people will begin to return in the near future if the upcoming patches are as progressive as 1.22C.

    Personally I still feel the 250 AF debuff coupled with the increasing spec multiplier deals far to much damage & this patch didn't address the Animist or Warlock using this tactic. I understand Animist/Warock can't use the AF debuff to the same effectiveness as the Necro did with slow/phantom etc, but I'd still like to see the value & duration reduced across the board.

    Playing a Warrior & being one rounded by a Hero/Arms for 900 or more with crits isn't fun.
    "God created the Heavens, he created the earth! He created all the Hulkamaniacs! Then, he created a set of 24-inch pythons, brother!" ~ Hulk Hogan
    http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/s/Hulkamania

  13. #13
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    481
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    90
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamania View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Inter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rascarl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    Hey all,

    After making such a ruckus about Necro's figured I would go ahead and share my thoughts on the most recent Necro changes implemented in 1.23C, as well as bring up some questions I will be looking at going forward while playing.

    First off, everyone who knows me knows I had necromancers as they were implemented in 1.23. I laid out a lot of points about why and how their spellkit had little to no counterplay, how they didn't seem to fit in the game, and were way too strong to leave in game and have the game be enjoyable. I haven't played versus a Necro tanker in awhile, but everything on paper sounds like great changes in the right direction. AF debuff delve being reduced to 15 seconds means if you want to play around a debuff you have to do what everyone else has to do, be coordinated and deliberate. Phantom pet was ridiculous and I am glad to see those numbers come down, it was unexpected that all caster pets would be ruptable now, but as a support player I'll take it. On a side note, the majority of my time playing lately has been in set up draft fights with no necromancers, and I have to say I am enjoying the game so much more and really think in terms of group fights it is in a more than decent place.

    So to close the book on Necromancers for now
    Not really true though is it?

    So you're happy with the class having no base AF buff? The slow spell was removed, but instead now gets a short range, disease node spell rather than a snare. So now it loses even its limited aoe cc ability.

    I also don't think that the book on the necro is closed. It now has a big target painted on it and people are gonna keep shootin' at it unfortunately.
    When any dumb group can run alb tanks with a necro af debuffing and just stick targets down, the class is overpowered.

    My armsman should not be hitting skalds for 800 base repeatedly.
    Well Necros can still AF debuff, but it'll require much more coordination being a 15s debuff as opposed to 45s. Removing "slow" & toning down the Phantom pet was a great move by Broadsword.

    It's unfortunate the changes to the Necro & pets in general took so long I'm afraid to many subs have been lost at this point. Hopefully people will begin to return in the near future if the upcoming patches are as progressive as 1.22C.

    Personally I still feel the 250 AF debuff coupled with the increasing spec multiplier deals far to much damage & this patch didn't address the Animist or Warlock using this tactic. I understand Animist/Warock can't use the AF debuff to the same effectiveness as the Necro did with slow/phantom etc, but I'd still like to see the value & duration reduced across the board.

    Playing a Warrior & being one rounded by a Hero/Arms for 900 or more with crits isn't fun.
    Em natebruner currently holds the record for damage on a tank and for mids to complain about alb tank damage is pretty pathetic zerrkers savages enough said .
    As for the necro it's been totally into the ground by you whiners on here but nothing has been done about bds or the rediculous chanter debuff but hey it's alb what else should we expect all the big mouths play hib and mid and didn't like alb having a class that consistently handed there asses to them !!

  14. #14
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    NJ/CT
    Posts
    4,754
    Likes (Given)
    199
    Likes (Received)
    475
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Twitch Channel(s)
    View Channel: interdaoc

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chainabuser View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamania View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Inter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rascarl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    Hey all,

    After making such a ruckus about Necro's figured I would go ahead and share my thoughts on the most recent Necro changes implemented in 1.23C, as well as bring up some questions I will be looking at going forward while playing.

    First off, everyone who knows me knows I had necromancers as they were implemented in 1.23. I laid out a lot of points about why and how their spellkit had little to no counterplay, how they didn't seem to fit in the game, and were way too strong to leave in game and have the game be enjoyable. I haven't played versus a Necro tanker in awhile, but everything on paper sounds like great changes in the right direction. AF debuff delve being reduced to 15 seconds means if you want to play around a debuff you have to do what everyone else has to do, be coordinated and deliberate. Phantom pet was ridiculous and I am glad to see those numbers come down, it was unexpected that all caster pets would be ruptable now, but as a support player I'll take it. On a side note, the majority of my time playing lately has been in set up draft fights with no necromancers, and I have to say I am enjoying the game so much more and really think in terms of group fights it is in a more than decent place.

    So to close the book on Necromancers for now
    Not really true though is it?

    So you're happy with the class having no base AF buff? The slow spell was removed, but instead now gets a short range, disease node spell rather than a snare. So now it loses even its limited aoe cc ability.

    I also don't think that the book on the necro is closed. It now has a big target painted on it and people are gonna keep shootin' at it unfortunately.
    When any dumb group can run alb tanks with a necro af debuffing and just stick targets down, the class is overpowered.

    My armsman should not be hitting skalds for 800 base repeatedly.
    Well Necros can still AF debuff, but it'll require much more coordination being a 15s debuff as opposed to 45s. Removing "slow" & toning down the Phantom pet was a great move by Broadsword.

    It's unfortunate the changes to the Necro & pets in general took so long I'm afraid to many subs have been lost at this point. Hopefully people will begin to return in the near future if the upcoming patches are as progressive as 1.22C.

    Personally I still feel the 250 AF debuff coupled with the increasing spec multiplier deals far to much damage & this patch didn't address the Animist or Warlock using this tactic. I understand Animist/Warock can't use the AF debuff to the same effectiveness as the Necro did with slow/phantom etc, but I'd still like to see the value & duration reduced across the board.

    Playing a Warrior & being one rounded by a Hero/Arms for 900 or more with crits isn't fun.
    Em natebruner currently holds the record for damage on a tank and for mids to complain about alb tank damage is pretty pathetic zerrkers savages enough said .
    As for the necro it's been totally into the ground by you whiners on here but nothing has been done about bds or the rediculous chanter debuff but hey it's alb what else should we expect all the big mouths play hib and mid and didn't like alb having a class that consistently handed there asses to them !!
    Chanters are not a big deal from what I've seen.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    5,322
    Likes (Given)
    125
    Likes (Received)
    1097
    Mentioned
    296 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't know why anyone would play a PW Necro anymore.

    Pet procs were fine. Pet proc stance could've used some minor tweaking.
    Quote Originally Posted by gcfbrian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Koae View Post
    OP and Enkill make threads worth reading.
    FTFY

  16. #16
    Newbie muylae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    906
    Likes (Given)
    1004
    Likes (Received)
    136
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamania View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Inter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rascarl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    Hey all,

    After making such a ruckus about Necro's figured I would go ahead and share my thoughts on the most recent Necro changes implemented in 1.23C, as well as bring up some questions I will be looking at going forward while playing.

    First off, everyone who knows me knows I had necromancers as they were implemented in 1.23. I laid out a lot of points about why and how their spellkit had little to no counterplay, how they didn't seem to fit in the game, and were way too strong to leave in game and have the game be enjoyable. I haven't played versus a Necro tanker in awhile, but everything on paper sounds like great changes in the right direction. AF debuff delve being reduced to 15 seconds means if you want to play around a debuff you have to do what everyone else has to do, be coordinated and deliberate. Phantom pet was ridiculous and I am glad to see those numbers come down, it was unexpected that all caster pets would be ruptable now, but as a support player I'll take it. On a side note, the majority of my time playing lately has been in set up draft fights with no necromancers, and I have to say I am enjoying the game so much more and really think in terms of group fights it is in a more than decent place.

    So to close the book on Necromancers for now
    Not really true though is it?

    So you're happy with the class having no base AF buff? The slow spell was removed, but instead now gets a short range, disease node spell rather than a snare. So now it loses even its limited aoe cc ability.

    I also don't think that the book on the necro is closed. It now has a big target painted on it and people are gonna keep shootin' at it unfortunately.
    When any dumb group can run alb tanks with a necro af debuffing and just stick targets down, the class is overpowered.

    My armsman should not be hitting skalds for 800 base repeatedly.
    Well Necros can still AF debuff, but it'll require much more coordination being a 15s debuff as opposed to 45s. Removing "slow" & toning down the Phantom pet was a great move by Broadsword.

    It's unfortunate the changes to the Necro & pets in general took so long I'm afraid to many subs have been lost at this point. Hopefully people will begin to return in the near future if the upcoming patches are as progressive as 1.22C.

    Personally I still feel the 250 AF debuff coupled with the increasing spec multiplier deals far to much damage & this patch didn't address the Animist or Warlock using this tactic. I understand Animist/Warock can't use the AF debuff to the same effectiveness as the Necro did with slow/phantom etc, but I'd still like to see the value & duration reduced across the board.

    Playing a Warrior & being one rounded by a Hero/Arms for 900 or more with crits isn't fun.
    uhm, how many warlocks do you see with a spec that allows them to AF debuff ? how many do you see in a tank train ? i haven't seen any mid tank group utilise a warlock with that spec for AF debuf.
    Muylock, cursing people. Muylaetrix, winter is coming. Muylaetrex, dead guy. Muylasav, swinging around with sharp bits stuck to his hands. Muyla, sticking arrows in people when not running away. and some other toons with names starting with Muyl.

  17. #17
    DAoC Knight
    (̿▀̿ ̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿)
    tald's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    8,335
    Likes (Given)
    638
    Likes (Received)
    729
    Mentioned
    410 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by muylae View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamania View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Inter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rascarl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    Hey all,

    After making such a ruckus about Necro's figured I would go ahead and share my thoughts on the most recent Necro changes implemented in 1.23C, as well as bring up some questions I will be looking at going forward while playing.

    First off, everyone who knows me knows I had necromancers as they were implemented in 1.23. I laid out a lot of points about why and how their spellkit had little to no counterplay, how they didn't seem to fit in the game, and were way too strong to leave in game and have the game be enjoyable. I haven't played versus a Necro tanker in awhile, but everything on paper sounds like great changes in the right direction. AF debuff delve being reduced to 15 seconds means if you want to play around a debuff you have to do what everyone else has to do, be coordinated and deliberate. Phantom pet was ridiculous and I am glad to see those numbers come down, it was unexpected that all caster pets would be ruptable now, but as a support player I'll take it. On a side note, the majority of my time playing lately has been in set up draft fights with no necromancers, and I have to say I am enjoying the game so much more and really think in terms of group fights it is in a more than decent place.

    So to close the book on Necromancers for now
    Not really true though is it?

    So you're happy with the class having no base AF buff? The slow spell was removed, but instead now gets a short range, disease node spell rather than a snare. So now it loses even its limited aoe cc ability.

    I also don't think that the book on the necro is closed. It now has a big target painted on it and people are gonna keep shootin' at it unfortunately.
    When any dumb group can run alb tanks with a necro af debuffing and just stick targets down, the class is overpowered.

    My armsman should not be hitting skalds for 800 base repeatedly.
    Well Necros can still AF debuff, but it'll require much more coordination being a 15s debuff as opposed to 45s. Removing "slow" & toning down the Phantom pet was a great move by Broadsword.

    It's unfortunate the changes to the Necro & pets in general took so long I'm afraid to many subs have been lost at this point. Hopefully people will begin to return in the near future if the upcoming patches are as progressive as 1.22C.

    Personally I still feel the 250 AF debuff coupled with the increasing spec multiplier deals far to much damage & this patch didn't address the Animist or Warlock using this tactic. I understand Animist/Warock can't use the AF debuff to the same effectiveness as the Necro did with slow/phantom etc, but I'd still like to see the value & duration reduced across the board.

    Playing a Warrior & being one rounded by a Hero/Arms for 900 or more with crits isn't fun.
    uhm, how many warlocks do you see with a spec that allows them to AF debuff ? how many do you see in a tank train ? i haven't seen any mid tank group utilise a warlock with that spec for AF debuf.
    At the same time, you don't see many alb groups utilizing this either, its a very niche strategy. Utilized again initially by a specific US alb pug and then copied by other pugs/guilds to lesser extent of success.

    I personally have run both warlock and animist debuff to a reasonable success in my pugs and with a reasonable rank savage working as the backfield killer with teh AF debuff its a two round in 90% of cases.
    defender of the weak | zerg killer extraordinare | phD in mathematics
    < R E A V E R >

  18. #18
    Member Ashmir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    14,914
    Likes (Given)
    1760
    Likes (Received)
    475
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by muylae View Post
    uhm, how many warlocks do you see with a spec that allows them to AF debuff ? how many do you see in a tank train ? i haven't seen any mid tank group utilise a warlock with that spec for AF debuf.
    Yeah, we did it several times. Destroyed everything except the alb version of it, which just had better defense against melee (waaaaay higher AF), more control (cc & interrupts), and believe it or not, better damage (3 x 6.0 speed weapon at 1.5 speed > almost anything Mid can put out, not to mention that 4 of the other classes in the group can also nuke on top of their other duties). Red celerity being cast reliably with Warriors or Zerks using 2h come really close, but the celerity is much less reliable there. h2h Savages, though... ooooof.
    The Gimpchimp
    Youtube Channel
    Quote Originally Posted by ugo_phelix View Post
    ...I mean, if you know someone didn't cheat, and you feel that the people making accusations are idiotic, why even dignify them with a response.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh View Post
    this board wouldn't exist if no one ever responded to dumb posts

  19. #19
    Sieging Advocate Sovereign's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    6,140
    Likes (Given)
    199
    Likes (Received)
    1277
    Mentioned
    111 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamania View Post

    Playing a Warrior & being one rounded by a Hero/Arms for 900 or more with crits isn't fun.
    Guess what, playing a necro and getting perfed for 1650 in 3/4 forms you're allowed to be in isn't fun either. It's stupid for a caster to not have an AF buff and BS in their zeal to nerf the hell out of the class really should be ashamed for not giving the necro an AF buff in this latest whiner-appeasement patch.
    RR12 Stormlord Wizard
    RR12 Warlord Cleric
    RR12 Warlord Minstrel

  20. #20
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    168
    Likes (Given)
    18
    Likes (Received)
    21
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chainabuser View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamania View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Inter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rascarl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    Hey all,

    After making such a ruckus about Necro's figured I would go ahead and share my thoughts on the most recent Necro changes implemented in 1.23C, as well as bring up some questions I will be looking at going forward while playing.

    First off, everyone who knows me knows I had necromancers as they were implemented in 1.23. I laid out a lot of points about why and how their spellkit had little to no counterplay, how they didn't seem to fit in the game, and were way too strong to leave in game and have the game be enjoyable. I haven't played versus a Necro tanker in awhile, but everything on paper sounds like great changes in the right direction. AF debuff delve being reduced to 15 seconds means if you want to play around a debuff you have to do what everyone else has to do, be coordinated and deliberate. Phantom pet was ridiculous and I am glad to see those numbers come down, it was unexpected that all caster pets would be ruptable now, but as a support player I'll take it. On a side note, the majority of my time playing lately has been in set up draft fights with no necromancers, and I have to say I am enjoying the game so much more and really think in terms of group fights it is in a more than decent place.

    So to close the book on Necromancers for now
    Not really true though is it?

    So you're happy with the class having no base AF buff? The slow spell was removed, but instead now gets a short range, disease node spell rather than a snare. So now it loses even its limited aoe cc ability.

    I also don't think that the book on the necro is closed. It now has a big target painted on it and people are gonna keep shootin' at it unfortunately.
    When any dumb group can run alb tanks with a necro af debuffing and just stick targets down, the class is overpowered.

    My armsman should not be hitting skalds for 800 base repeatedly.
    Well Necros can still AF debuff, but it'll require much more coordination being a 15s debuff as opposed to 45s. Removing "slow" & toning down the Phantom pet was a great move by Broadsword.

    It's unfortunate the changes to the Necro & pets in general took so long I'm afraid to many subs have been lost at this point. Hopefully people will begin to return in the near future if the upcoming patches are as progressive as 1.22C.

    Personally I still feel the 250 AF debuff coupled with the increasing spec multiplier deals far to much damage & this patch didn't address the Animist or Warlock using this tactic. I understand Animist/Warock can't use the AF debuff to the same effectiveness as the Necro did with slow/phantom etc, but I'd still like to see the value & duration reduced across the board.

    Playing a Warrior & being one rounded by a Hero/Arms for 900 or more with crits isn't fun.
    Em natebruner currently holds the record for damage on a tank and for mids to complain about alb tank damage is pretty pathetic zerrkers savages enough said .
    As for the necro it's been totally into the ground by you whiners on here but nothing has been done about bds or the rediculous chanter debuff but hey it's alb what else should we expect all the big mouths play hib and mid and didn't like alb having a class that consistently handed there asses to them !!
    Nothing got done about bds? ?????? Read the patch note and pass the crack you are smoking. BD Heal pets 50% more damage from all sources. Now get interputed of you look at em wrong. Dread lord stun removed , soldiers back snare removed. And more. Now a bd has sb out 1/10 the utility of an necro and 1 single target root for cc in bone army ( usless line even solo now ) . So yah gg more nerfs Inc for necro guaranteed.

  21. #21
    Newbie muylae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    906
    Likes (Given)
    1004
    Likes (Received)
    136
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sovereign View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamania View Post

    Playing a Warrior & being one rounded by a Hero/Arms for 900 or more with crits isn't fun.
    Guess what, playing a necro and getting perfed for 1650 in 3/4 forms you're allowed to be in isn't fun either. It's stupid for a caster to not have an AF buff and BS in their zeal to nerf the hell out of the class really should be ashamed for not giving the necro an AF buff in this latest whiner-appeasement patch.
    buffed tank necros have 1200ish AF and you are complaining ? only a paladin can get better AF i think. non tank necros are glass cannons, deal with it.
    Muylock, cursing people. Muylaetrix, winter is coming. Muylaetrex, dead guy. Muylasav, swinging around with sharp bits stuck to his hands. Muyla, sticking arrows in people when not running away. and some other toons with names starting with Muyl.

  22. #22
    Sieging Advocate Sovereign's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    6,140
    Likes (Given)
    199
    Likes (Received)
    1277
    Mentioned
    111 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by muylae View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sovereign View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamania View Post

    Playing a Warrior & being one rounded by a Hero/Arms for 900 or more with crits isn't fun.
    Guess what, playing a necro and getting perfed for 1650 in 3/4 forms you're allowed to be in isn't fun either. It's stupid for a caster to not have an AF buff and BS in their zeal to nerf the hell out of the class really should be ashamed for not giving the necro an AF buff in this latest whiner-appeasement patch.
    buffed tank necros have 1200ish AF and you are complaining ? only a paladin can get better AF i think. non tank necros are glass cannons, deal with it.
    Yes I am complaining because as you've stated which backs up my claim, unless you are in 1 of the 4 forms you are pretty much two-shot. This extreme vulnerability is not something seen by any other caster in the entire game regardless of their damage output and makes them much more fragile than a glass canon. Because people are shell shocked by what necros were when they first were revamped that does not make it ok to leave them with this huge imbalance. Warlocks wrecked havoc on the game for a lot longer than the revamped necros, went through a revamp, can still do huge amounts of dps and even they do not suffer from a lack of an AF buff. All BS has to do to begin to address the issue is to include an AF buff in the spirit and decrepit forms as part of the buffs they get in those forms. Then at least you'll have some kind of AF in 3/4 forms instead of just 1/4.
    RR12 Stormlord Wizard
    RR12 Warlord Cleric
    RR12 Warlord Minstrel

  23. #23
    German Smallmen Lugana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    182
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    67
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tormidge View Post
    pet procs on astral is fine now
    Funny that all the stanker players complainin about the pet procs ...... mmhmm

  24. #24
    Inner Circle Jerk
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    3,406
    Likes (Given)
    23
    Likes (Received)
    1289
    Mentioned
    84 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Really dislike taking away pet procs. Pets should have been nerfed, 2 shots by a healer and green con. Also should have been a penalty to defence for the tank...but it really kills light tanks and it's a huge boost to alb
    Agramon Certified: Aug healer, Valk, Druid, Warden, Friar
    EV Certified: Pac healer, Bard, Sorc, Cab, Hero, Paladin, Bonedancer
    Postcount Certified: Everything else

    http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/s/Jtsmash

  25. #25
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    279
    Likes (Given)
    37
    Likes (Received)
    85
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Opel_lance View Post
    Really dislike taking away pet procs. Pets should have been nerfed, 2 shots by a healer and green con. Also should have been a penalty to defence for the tank...but it really kills light tanks and it's a huge boost to alb
    It is definetly not a perfect long term solution, Im expecting hybrid changes patch to address the big issues with missing pet procs, only question then is whether LT's still have a essential role to fill.

  26. #26
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    227
    Likes (Given)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    16
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by muylae View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sovereign View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamania View Post

    Playing a Warrior & being one rounded by a Hero/Arms for 900 or more with crits isn't fun.
    Guess what, playing a necro and getting perfed for 1650 in 3/4 forms you're allowed to be in isn't fun either. It's stupid for a caster to not have an AF buff and BS in their zeal to nerf the hell out of the class really should be ashamed for not giving the necro an AF buff in this latest whiner-appeasement patch.
    buffed tank necros have 1200ish AF and you are complaining ? only a paladin can get better AF i think. non tank necros are glass cannons, deal with it.
    Not even glass.

  27. #27
    Inner Circle Jerk
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    3,406
    Likes (Given)
    23
    Likes (Received)
    1289
    Mentioned
    84 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Opel_lance View Post
    Really dislike taking away pet procs. Pets should have been nerfed, 2 shots by a healer and green con. Also should have been a penalty to defence for the tank...but it really kills light tanks and it's a huge boost to alb
    It is definetly not a perfect long term solution, Im expecting hybrid changes patch to address the big issues with missing pet procs, only question then is whether LT's still have a essential role to fill.
    Hybrid are hard, because if you boost them for groups there is a potential for them to be way over the top in small or solo.

    Light tanks need something, especially mercs because Merc just went from being quite good in group to being situational at best. Zerk is still really good but bm pretty meh now.
    Agramon Certified: Aug healer, Valk, Druid, Warden, Friar
    EV Certified: Pac healer, Bard, Sorc, Cab, Hero, Paladin, Bonedancer
    Postcount Certified: Everything else

    http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/s/Jtsmash

  28. #28
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    279
    Likes (Given)
    37
    Likes (Received)
    85
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Opel_lance View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Opel_lance View Post
    Really dislike taking away pet procs. Pets should have been nerfed, 2 shots by a healer and green con. Also should have been a penalty to defence for the tank...but it really kills light tanks and it's a huge boost to alb
    It is definetly not a perfect long term solution, Im expecting hybrid changes patch to address the big issues with missing pet procs, only question then is whether LT's still have a essential role to fill.
    Hybrid are hard, because if you boost them for groups there is a potential for them to be way over the top in small or solo.

    Light tanks need something, especially mercs because Merc just went from being quite good in group to being situational at best. Zerk is still really good but bm pretty meh now.
    It's tough to think of what to give them after BS went out of there way to remove backsnares removing peel potential and now doubling down on removing their utility by removing pet procs and saying they do not want them to be the main interrupt role. It seems like all that you can give them is just damage, which is a bit boring but may be what is needed-turn every LT into savages, idk. Trying to think of what other kind of utility they could give them, like some kind of damage mitigation or maybe frontline stat debuffs of some kind, or maybe people would be allergic to any stuff like that.

  29. #29
    Warrior Team Lead Hulkamania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Wrestlemania
    Posts
    1,799
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    100
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Opel_lance View Post
    Really dislike taking away pet procs. Pets should have been nerfed, 2 shots by a healer and green con. Also should have been a penalty to defence for the tank...but it really kills light tanks and it's a huge boost to alb
    It is definetly not a perfect long term solution, Im expecting hybrid changes patch to address the big issues with missing pet procs, only question then is whether LT's still have a essential role to fill.
    I don't think the introduction of free Charge 5 along with pet proc stance was a good idea to being with. Savages absolutely didn't need pet proc stance imo. Astral weapons & Traitors were always viable as interrupts before when LTs needed them.

    If a LTs role is defined as damage then adding mythical dps up to 21% + 30 free realm skill points towards damage passives has achieved that role imo.

    Again LTs can still interrupt with Astral BoI / Traitors combo. One thing I don't agree with is removing Astral Conflag's ability to pet proc.

    Judging from all the videos posted here pet proc stance seemed to be completely out of hand & removing it altogether seems like the correct move.

    Lets be honest the overwhelming majority of players will always run full tank groups regardless of the changes. Anything that can help players who choose to run more difficult, diverse setups is a good thing imo.
    "God created the Heavens, he created the earth! He created all the Hulkamaniacs! Then, he created a set of 24-inch pythons, brother!" ~ Hulk Hogan
    http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/s/Hulkamania

  30. #30
    Warrior Team Lead Hulkamania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Wrestlemania
    Posts
    1,799
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    100
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sovereign View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamania View Post

    Playing a Warrior & being one rounded by a Hero/Arms for 900 or more with crits isn't fun.
    Guess what, playing a necro and getting perfed for 1650 in 3/4 forms you're allowed to be in isn't fun either. It's stupid for a caster to not have an AF buff and BS in their zeal to nerf the hell out of the class really should be ashamed for not giving the necro an AF buff in this latest whiner-appeasement patch.
    Assassin's openers actually do devastating damage now & that's how it should be. Getting PAd for large amounts of damage isn't unique to the Necro AF buff or not. Hell I've witnessed 2H SBs two shot support with optimal crits.

    If you want PA damage addressed this isn't the thread for it. Try to stay on topic.
    "God created the Heavens, he created the earth! He created all the Hulkamaniacs! Then, he created a set of 24-inch pythons, brother!" ~ Hulk Hogan
    http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/s/Hulkamania

  31. #31
    Member Ashmir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    14,914
    Likes (Given)
    1760
    Likes (Received)
    475
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamania View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sovereign View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamania View Post

    Playing a Warrior & being one rounded by a Hero/Arms for 900 or more with crits isn't fun.
    Guess what, playing a necro and getting perfed for 1650 in 3/4 forms you're allowed to be in isn't fun either. It's stupid for a caster to not have an AF buff and BS in their zeal to nerf the hell out of the class really should be ashamed for not giving the necro an AF buff in this latest whiner-appeasement patch.
    Assassin's openers actually do devastating damage now & that's how it should be. Getting PAd for large amounts of damage isn't unique to the Necro AF buff or not. Hell I've witnessed 2H SBs two shot support with optimal crits.

    If you want PA damage addressed this isn't the thread for it. Try to stay on topic.
    I know a Warden in a good template that got perfed for over 2700. My sorc got perfed for 1500. You're right; perf damage is not a problem exclusive to Necromancers. I guess having everything without sacrificing anything has certain people spoiled.
    The Gimpchimp
    Youtube Channel
    Quote Originally Posted by ugo_phelix View Post
    ...I mean, if you know someone didn't cheat, and you feel that the people making accusations are idiotic, why even dignify them with a response.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh View Post
    this board wouldn't exist if no one ever responded to dumb posts

  32. #32
    Handsome Stranger
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    9,312
    Likes (Given)
    74
    Likes (Received)
    134
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    Hey all,

    After making such a ruckus about Necro's figured I would go ahead and share my thoughts on the most recent Necro changes implemented in 1.23C, as well as bring up some questions I will be looking at going forward while playing.

    First off, everyone who knows me knows I had necromancers as they were implemented in 1.23. I laid out a lot of points about why and how their spellkit had little to no counterplay, how they didn't seem to fit in the game, and were way too strong to leave in game and have the game be enjoyable. I haven't played versus a Necro tanker in awhile, but everything on paper sounds like great changes in the right direction. AF debuff delve being reduced to 15 seconds means if you want to play around a debuff you have to do what everyone else has to do, be coordinated and deliberate. Phantom pet was ridiculous and I am glad to see those numbers come down, it was unexpected that all caster pets would be ruptable now, but as a support player I'll take it. On a side note, the majority of my time playing lately has been in set up draft fights with no necromancers, and I have to say I am enjoying the game so much more and really think in terms of group fights it is in a more than decent place.

    So to close the book on Necromancers for now; Good job Broadsword on listening to feedback and the community. I know I was frustrated it took so long, but I am used to game companies like Valve and Blizzard, and the simple fact of the matter is, while Broadsword is trying to emulate their development practices of iteration, balance patches, etc it can't keep up with their speed and I get that.

    Let's talk about Pet procs and their removal. There is no knowing exactly why they were removed but I think we all know that Broadsword has been making some kind of concerted effort to push back against the popularity and prevalence of tanks-- Don't bring up free charge 5 please!! I believe this is why we saw "slows' introduced, which ended up backfiring as the easiest to use slows were just used in tank groups. It is not as if Casters are underpowered or weak, it's pretty much consensus that a well played caster or hybrid group crushes all, but they require the most coordination and are simply challenging to execute. Slows were an attempt to open up these kinds of groups to more players. Now that Pet procs are gone I know I am going to be paying close attention to both the overall strength of hybrids and caster groups and the ease of executing them well. From the very few fights I played so far on this patch, I have to say I felt a huge noticeable gap where the LT's pet procs once were. Maybe the players weren't adjusting well enough and using Astral blades, etc, so this will be something to pay attention to. I'm not sure whether this gap is a good thing or a bad thing and I think we will just have to wait and see how it plays out, as it is currently I am looking forward to Upcoming Melee Hybrid changes and interested how Broadsword will give them tools to fulfill the role of front-line interrupts.

    Some stuff to consider; If LT's are mean't to be "dangerous frontline damage dealers" and less of "major frontline interrupters" we should make sure that all LT's are performing within reasonable margins of each other in this capacity. I might just be echoing sentiment on PC and in-game but it seems like Savages are just such a bigger damage threat than other LT's-- I think just a few raw number crunches could either help dispel this myth that I and others put stock in or prove it to be true and show what needs tweaks.

    TLDR; I am both worried and excited by the possibilities of the removal of pet procs, I want people to think about how it effects the overall game and what kind of things they want implemented or not implemented when Broadsword gets around to filling the gap left by the removal of pet stances and serious nerf of pet procs when they focus "in on melee hybrids and support in that frontline interrupt role in upcoming versions".

    Cheers
    Iokama lul
    Honor.

  33. #33
    Sieging Advocate Sovereign's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    6,140
    Likes (Given)
    199
    Likes (Received)
    1277
    Mentioned
    111 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamania View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sovereign View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamania View Post

    Playing a Warrior & being one rounded by a Hero/Arms for 900 or more with crits isn't fun.
    Guess what, playing a necro and getting perfed for 1650 in 3/4 forms you're allowed to be in isn't fun either. It's stupid for a caster to not have an AF buff and BS in their zeal to nerf the hell out of the class really should be ashamed for not giving the necro an AF buff in this latest whiner-appeasement patch.
    Assassin's openers actually do devastating damage now & that's how it should be. Getting PAd for large amounts of damage isn't unique to the Necro AF buff or not. Hell I've witnessed 2H SBs two shot support with optimal crits.

    If you want PA damage addressed this isn't the thread for it. Try to stay on topic.
    I know a Warden in a good template that got perfed for over 2700. My sorc got perfed for 1500. You're right; perf damage is not a problem exclusive to Necromancers. I guess having everything without sacrificing anything has certain people spoiled.
    With good crits you are both correct you can see damage such as that. What I'm getting at is that they do that kind of damage without crits on necros due to their lack of AF. I know the issues surrounding necros are probably something you couldn't care less about but that doesn't matter to me as the thread specifically is for discussing the current patch which includes necros. Assassin opening damage is just the most glaring example of the AF issues that is unique to the necromancer class despite poor attempts to conflate it with assassin damage.
    RR12 Stormlord Wizard
    RR12 Warlord Cleric
    RR12 Warlord Minstrel

  34. #34
    Sieging Advocate Sovereign's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    6,140
    Likes (Given)
    199
    Likes (Received)
    1277
    Mentioned
    111 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamania View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sovereign View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamania View Post

    Playing a Warrior & being one rounded by a Hero/Arms for 900 or more with crits isn't fun.
    Guess what, playing a necro and getting perfed for 1650 in 3/4 forms you're allowed to be in isn't fun either. It's stupid for a caster to not have an AF buff and BS in their zeal to nerf the hell out of the class really should be ashamed for not giving the necro an AF buff in this latest whiner-appeasement patch.
    Assassin's openers actually do devastating damage now & that's how it should be. Getting PAd for large amounts of damage isn't unique to the Necro AF buff or not. Hell I've witnessed 2H SBs two shot support with optimal crits.

    If you want PA damage addressed this isn't the thread for it. Try to stay on topic.
    If you think melee damage on a caster with no AF isn't a big deal I invite you to run around on any caster class without your shields up and see if it feels right to you. Necros not having AF is unique because they are the only caster without it and since the thread is to discuss necros among other things I would say it's exactly on topic. Try to use your head.
    RR12 Stormlord Wizard
    RR12 Warlord Cleric
    RR12 Warlord Minstrel

  35. #35
    Member Ashmir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    14,914
    Likes (Given)
    1760
    Likes (Received)
    475
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    1.122 necros (specifically Deathsight, but all three lines were good) were the most overpowered thing that has ever been in the game. It's worse than SoiMoc. It's worse than Warlocks. It's worse than Frontloading, 2h Savages. It's worse than pre-nerf Left Axe. It's not my fault that literally only one group figured out how to abuse them, and you weren't that group. They had everything and gave up nothing. They've been slightly brought back to earth. Melee hurts? Position better. Use your tools to avoid it better. You have them. Stop crying that you're not still the most overpowered class in the history of the game because you don't understand how to use the multitude of tools at your disposal to take advantage of the multitude of strengths you still have.

    Jesus.
    The Gimpchimp
    Youtube Channel
    Quote Originally Posted by ugo_phelix View Post
    ...I mean, if you know someone didn't cheat, and you feel that the people making accusations are idiotic, why even dignify them with a response.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh View Post
    this board wouldn't exist if no one ever responded to dumb posts

  36. #36
    NS TL & Top 3 Air Theurg CDFTW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Valdosta, GA
    Posts
    11,177
    Likes (Given)
    10969
    Likes (Received)
    2015
    Mentioned
    325 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    he does need to adapt, but i dont think anything was more OP than warlocks at release (and they stayed that way for a long time... they probably nerfed delve on pbaoes at some point before chambers, but could still wipe zergs solo)
    http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/s/CDFTW

    [Celticdualftw - R10LX - Nightshade TL]

  37. #37
    Newbie kronoxus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    731
    Likes (Given)
    33
    Likes (Received)
    126
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sovereign View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Iowka View Post
    I haven't played versus a Necro tanker in awhile, but everything on paper sounds like great changes in the right direction.

    So to close the book on Necromancers for now; Good job Broadsword on listening to feedback and the community.
    Hasn't experienced the necro changes but ready to pronounce the changes a success.
    You have to pass the bill to find out what is in the bill -Dirtbag Leatherface
    ~Westies

    I collect ROFLs, but deep down I really need a /hug

    http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/s/Kronoxus

  38. #38
    Newbie kronoxus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    731
    Likes (Given)
    33
    Likes (Received)
    126
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CDFTW View Post
    he does need to adapt, but i dont think anything was more OP than warlocks at release (and they stayed that way for a long time... they probably nerfed delve on pbaoes at some point before chambers, but could still wipe zergs solo)
    Chamber dump to instagib anyone ...
    ~Westies

    I collect ROFLs, but deep down I really need a /hug

    http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/s/Kronoxus

  39. #39
    Member Ashmir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    14,914
    Likes (Given)
    1760
    Likes (Received)
    475
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CDFTW View Post
    he does need to adapt, but i dont think anything was more OP than warlocks at release (and they stayed that way for a long time... they probably nerfed delve on pbaoes at some point before chambers, but could still wipe zergs solo)
    Solo yes. Their impact in groups was lower. Just like SOIMOC, though I'm not saying that either weren't still godly in groups. I think soimoc comes closest to 1.122b Deathsight Necro. 100% value moc that you didn't have to spend 30 ra points on that not only lets you run faster, it gives you an additional 35% damage reduction from all sources! Combine that with an r5 that is almost a Hero's moose + a giant life regen + multiple forms of instant crowd control that isn't on an immunity timer with a pet that snares targets by 80%+ with your choice of a 179 lifetap or a 325 pbae. Oh, and the ability to make tanks hit cap damage on the only realm where you can reliably run three tanks with 1k+ armor factor swinging 6.0 weapons at 1.5 speed, 2 of which that are extremely resistant to magic damage, too, and oh by the way has the only class in the game that can singlehandedly interrupt an entire group. Top notch control. Top notch offense. Top notch defense. Give up literally nothing to have the best of everything. Yeah, 1.122b Sight Necro wins. Warlocks just blapped a couple of targets then cast slow the rest of the fight.
    The Gimpchimp
    Youtube Channel
    Quote Originally Posted by ugo_phelix View Post
    ...I mean, if you know someone didn't cheat, and you feel that the people making accusations are idiotic, why even dignify them with a response.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh View Post
    this board wouldn't exist if no one ever responded to dumb posts

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •